Underdog wrote:
More than the Houston School of Defense (Jeff Van Gundy via Pat Riley), I would actually prefer to see someone teach the T-Pups the San Antonio Way. From the Seattle Times at: seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sports/20...44_sanantonio10.html
"Much like New England Patriots coach Bill Belichick, who spawned a legion of disciples, Popovich has created a successful system that many around the NBA are trying to emulate. Cleveland, Dallas and Phoenix have coaches or general managers schooled in the San Antonio Way. The San Antonio Way… begins with relationships…is built on vision and patience…isn't tied to sentimentality…adheres to defense…doesn't suffer prima donnas…attracts talent at a discount…doesn't bend to public opinion…means thinking outside the box[foreign players].” "People who are willing to go to work and not skip any steps. We talk about bringing character people in here that you enjoy working with, so that when things go bad, when you're having rough times, everyone knows that they're going to work with people they enjoy. It's important that somebody has to give a vision....If there's conflict in the vision, it's when management, ownership and coaches don't work together. It got to a point where we weren't going to worry about it [standings] anymore, and he basically put the onus on the players to turn this around... Pop coaches with the big picture in mind. He will never say in November or December, 'We've got to win this one.' He says get better ... every day in practice."

It also relies on having the best PF ever to play basketball to draw those players at a discount, etc.

Best Power Forward Ever? From USA Today: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/s...6-bonus-duncan_N.htm
"'He's probably the best post-up player we have in the world,' Utah's Carlos Boozer said. 'He has every move. He has poise. He never gets rattled. You can send a double-team at him, but he'll pass out of it. If he has single coverage, he'll face you up and shoot off the glass, get the layup, spin move baseline, right hook, left hook, fadeaway.' 'He's such a great guy and a great person that the thing you forget is the thing that may define him — he's a cold-blooded killer as a competitor,' Rick Carlisle said. 'There is no one tougher and no one who loves winning or hates losing more than Tim Duncan. With a superstar who is that good, that competitive and that selfless, you've got a franchise cornerstone and one of the greats of all time.' 'He may be a 7-footer, but he's basically a quarterback in shorts,' said Spurs coach Gregg Popovich."

In this article, Duncan is compared to Karl Malone, Kevin McHale, Kevin Garnett and Bob Pettit. McHale agrees that Duncan is the best. How "athletic" is Tim Duncan? I know he is very strong, but I don't recall seeing him jump through the roof or win any footraces. Interestingly, the Spurs have not had a dominant center playing alongside Duncan during the Duncan/Parker/Ginobli era.

Duncan probably shouldn't really even be in the conversation for best PF ever, because for all intents and purposes he's a center. I'm guessing the main reason he's played there or has been listed as such is because he started his career alongside another all-time great center in the guise of David Robinson. He's about as much of a PF as Amare Stoudemire is as a center. His height, strength, and level of athleticism all make him more of a center. His hops are pretty minimal and he's not too fast, but he's still a top-5 player because of his strength, skills, and smarts.

Which makes me think twice about all the flak Love is getting. So he's not a great athlete (he's a good one at least, give him that). I know Duncan is 3 inches taller and is much better, but it least gives me some hope that Love can be pretty effective.

There is a good thread on what it takes to be a good post defender at TWolves Central:
www.mnsportsfans.com/forum/showthread.ph...f79d&t=23153
Wolf on the Prowl: "Post defense is not easy. Quickness and strength has to be first if you can beat the offensive player to the spot and hold him out of the place where he wants to go you are going to have success. Next I would put anticipation some guys see things a little quicker than others and that anticipation makes people great defensive players. To be a great post defender you do not need to be a great shot blocker in fact a great post defenders usually make someone else a much better shot blockers."
SIVA: "As for "lock down post defenders," name 5 in the league. I don't think they exist. I think there are 2 prototypes, the shot blockers (Camby, Ratliff, Wallace, etc.) and the positional defenders (who get less of the glory, but are more effective over 48 minutes IMO). FWIW, I don't think that KG was a particularly brilliant defender one-on-one on this team. I remember many games where KG got torched by the opposing 4 (usually, he offset it with his own offfensive output though.) The key to Boston's defense is "team d" not any one individual defender. They all defend adequately well, with the Perkins, Rondo, and Posey (past tense) focusing on it moreso than others. I think that position, coaching, and effort are the most important elements to NBA post D. Obviously, athleticism and length are also important, but I don't think they make a good post defender on their own."
RAHchills: "When I think of shot blockers, I think of help defense. If a low post defender can cheat off his man and throw some into the sixth row, that's great... but I don't think that makes a great low post defender. I think that being able to stay in front of your man is more important then blocking shots as is boxing out/rebounding. I know its not as sexy as shot blocking but I'd take a guy who can do those things anyday over a guy who simply blocks shots.

YouTube Clip - Spurs Team Defense



"A great clip showing a single Spurs defensive possession with double teams, help, rotations and a contested shot. Focus on the great commitment to the basketball."

It looks like mostly hustle, conditioning and intelligence to me.

Here is an article describing an experience of what it must be like at practice with Gregg Popovich and Tim Duncan:

Youth versus experience
By Basketbawful Wednesday, July 16, 2008

“Experience is something you greatly underestimate...when you don't have it. That's why younger players tend to come across as arrogant on the court. I can't tell you how many times some strutting teenager has challenged me to one-on-one with that "I'm gonna kick the old guy's ass" look on his face only to get sent away with his tail between his legs.
But, once upon a time, I was that arrogant kid. And here's how I learned my lesson.”

basketbawful.blogspot.com/2008/07/pickup...ll-youth-versus.html

I always liked this Greg Oden quote that I read in Truehoop a while back:

Everyone's been telling me that as a big man, no matter how much I prepare myself, you learn your toughest lesson when you go down to San Antonio. The other day [former NBA player and Blazers assistant coach] Monty Williams pulled me aside and told me: "That guy down there" -- meaning Tim Duncan -- "has had surgery on his left knee. He can only jump about this high [holds his fingers about an inch apart]. He won't say a word to you, and he will Bust. Your. A--."


myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-27-53/Gre...n-on-Tim-Duncan.html

I like Oden, he's a stud. Portland is gonna be sick this year! Soooo many good young players its not fair.

On the one hand, David Robinson had great upper body strength and on the other Tim Duncan has great lower body strength. Who was more successful? Here is a link to a pre-draft article on Kevin Love in Slam magazine that discusses his strength and compares him to Wes Unseld:

http://slamonline.com/online/2008/06/feeling-a-draft-love-mayo/

Wednesday, June 11th, 2008 | 107 Comments

"Feeling a Draft: Love & Mayo: Who will be the better pro?" By Jeff Fox

I thought the comments were just as interesting as the article itself. Lower body strength allows a post player to abuse the opposition without getting called for fouls. Physically, does Oden have it all? I don't think he is as skilled as Duncan or Love.

Did anyone watch Tyson Chandler's defensive performance for the Hornets during the playoffs? He had some good games against Tim Duncan and Tony Parker. Here is a comment on NBA defense and post defense in particular:

"In the pro game, defense is often more systematic than the flowing, interchangeable defenses played in college. But even though college defense may be more fluid, the defense in the NBA is fascinating because footwork -- each step and angle of the step -- is crucial.

"People have to understand -- you're playing against the best players in the world," Hornets guard Morris Peterson said. "So when a guy has the ball and you're checking him, you're kind of at his mercy. Defense is all about playing with heart and determination. And you put the effort in, you work hard, good things will come."

And in the NBA, the post defense is arguably more exciting to watch than in college, notably when two polished giants collide. And with the Hornets, every night there will be a riveting battle in the paint, featuring their warrior of a center, Tyson Chandler. His shot-blocking prowess and aggressive, yet tactical, defense make each possession a game within a game. And eight nights this season, he will face either Houston's Yao Ming or Phoenix's Amare Stoudemire, whose explosive offensive games will make for heavyweight battles."

www.nola.com/hornets/t-p/index.ssf?/base...0.xml&coll=1

Tyson Chandler is listed as of the 5 best center for 2008-09:
bleacherreport.com/articles/46486-nba-pr...the-2008-2009-season

Chandler destroyed Yao last season every time they met. Only scoring Yao could get on Chandler was hitting mid-range turnarounds or somehow succesfully completing a spin move around him. Whenever Yao tried to back him up, CHandler just stood there and didn't allow him to get down low. He's got incredible body strength, both upper and lower.

I was impressed with his playoff defense of Tim Duncan and his team defense - limiting Tony Parker's forays into the paint. Here is a commentary from emptythebench.com on NBA team defense:

"There’s something strangly alluring about five athletes functioning as one solid, cohesive unit like tentacles stretching out from the same torso. About pressuring the ball from baseline to baseline, getting hands in faces, about causing turnovers and turning it around back down the floor for a high-flying dunk or otherwise theatric fastbreak opportunity.

When Hubie Brown dissects such displays in slow motion on TNT and emphasizes the many working defensive parts that helped lead to an easy offensive bucket, the man takes on the personality of an orchestra conductor. Indeed, stellar team defense can be almost symphonic in its rarified, perfected glory."

www.emptythebench.com/2008/06/17/in-defe...r-team-isnt-scoring/

Is there a physical limit to the level of defense that an NBA player can exert and still have the energy to score?

Dwayne Wade told the Miami Herald that the key to his active defense at the Olympics is short minutes (via Truehoop): "Being healthy, I'm a very good defender. My job with the Heat is totally different ... It's about being smart and getting the right guys on your team that can help. I wouldn't be a good defender on this team if I didn't have anybody to come in. I can go hard for 15-17 minutes and know that Kobe (Bryant) is going to come in, Deron Williams is going to come in and those guys are going to keep the pressure up."

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-33...t-Cup--Thursday.html

Interestingly, Dwayne Wade's trainer, Tim Grover, is the same guy that took Michel Jordan to another level defensively. He developed a program to develop stamina, power and flexibility focusing on strengthening a player's "core." Read about how the "Breakfast Club" workouts gave Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen and Ron Harper the stamina and strength to be superior defensive players even at the end of the fourth quarter(including sample exercises): www.maxpreps.com/FanPages/Content/Articl...72-a4a6-d15e01cb83af

"After the 1989-1990 season, which resulted in another unsuccessful trip to the playoffs, Michael Jordan realized he needed to take his game to another level, and the only way to do that would be by dedicating himself to training. So, he teamed up with Tim Grover and started an early morning workout plan. One at a time, teammates joined the sessions, and consequently, the Bulls went on to win six NBA Championships. The Breakfast Club was established. Why did it start? The Bulls kept making it to the Eastern Conference Finals; they just couldn't get past the Pistons. The summer after they lost again, Michael did some soul searching to figure out exactly how to beat them. Joe Dumars, the guy Michael probably respected the most defensively, was an extremely strong player who played Michael really hard. And when it came to crunch time, Games 6 and 7, it just seemed like Joe had a little edge. Even with Michael's great games, if he had just a little more juice in the engine, he probably could have gotten the Bulls over the top. So Michael and Tim put their heads together and decided that it made more sense from endurance, strength and mental standpoints to work out through the whole season, instead of periodically during the off-season."

College Wolf wrote:
twolf3234 wrote:
Never say never. Team defense can somewhat improve witht he right schemes. I agree that aside of Brewer we don't have any good natural defenders but I think some of the guys can become moderate defenders with the right guy teaching them. Most of them are still young enough to learn. KG also wasn't a great defender when he just arrived into the league.


He was better than anyone the Wolves have right now.

No. No he wasn't. He was a kid straight outta high school, whose TUP's (Tremendous Upside Potential, to use a Hubbieism) was out of this world. I went to 4-8 games a year back then, back when lower bowl tickets were under $30, and I'll say this:

KG's rookie year was, by the numbers, good. There were flashes pretty much every game of what would come. But, and this is a big but, there were just as many times where he looked lost, or straight up blew assignments; he was a rookie.

I say this because sometimes we (Wolves fans) like to imagine KG arriving fully-formed, riding a lightning bolt. And that wasn't the case. The best thing about that 95-96 season was the joy and enthusiasm he brought to every moment he was in the game, even when he was making mistakes. That was something that we hadn't been seen in a Wolves uni before.

/me sighs

I still miss him

*single tear*

[speaking of terrible defensive teams, that 95-96 team had Rider, Laettner, Webb, Rooks, Porter, and of course the original terrible T'Wolves contract Michael "planar fasciitis" Williams who was awful.. when he was able to play... which was almost never.]

From Blazer's Edge commenting on the play of the USA Olympic team:

"The only other things that stood out about the U.S. team was simply how difficult it is for any team that's not intimately familiar with each other (and trusting of each other) to make defensive adjustments and rebound. Certain critical aspects of the game really are team-dependent no matter how talented the players involved."

http://www.blazersedge.com/2008/8/24/600...thoughts-on-team-usa

How did they get there?

"The Olympic gold medal won by USA Basketball - the star-studded Redeem Team - has resurrected this country's reputation as an incubator of great basketball, not just of great, free-styling players.

The difference is crucial.

Four years ago, a different collection of National Basketball Association millionaires left the Olympics in Athens, Greece, with but a bronze medal. In short, they departed in humiliation. Basketball as played by the rest of the world was leaving the U.S. game in its dust. Solid team play and impenetrable defense were starting to outdistance the star-powered, whirling-dervish NBA game."

www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/opinio...20080826tue1-26.html