It was a Clippers fan so take it how you will.

You get quicker running drills and putting in the effort annd he has that kind of work ethic. If it means slimming down like Love or getting bigger I'm pretty sure whatever Adelman wants from D-Will so he can play both positions is what he'll provide over the offseason. D-Will is a hard worker because his whole life he's had to earn his stay on basketball teams and even here he has to earn his minutes and his starting position ( And apparently the trust of Minny fans).

daddyfatsax wrote: Exactly. I won't pile it on JazzUtah, so I'll just say that Daddy pretty much nailed it.

It's not like some of us here complain for no reason or just to be jerks. It's called realism. It's the way it is. It gets hard to have unbridled optimism for years and years and years with nothing to show for it. With that said, we have a more promising future than 6 years ago, but that is what the Front Office has been feeding us every off-season.

Our only trade value is Love, Williams, and Rubio. That's it. And two of those guys play the same position (Williams has show me nothing that thinks he could be a SF.) So how do we get better without trading them?

JazzUtah wrote: Two more years, two more years, two more years blah blah blah. How long are we supposed to wait? It's been 6 years since we've had KG now, and we have been one of the worst teams in the league ever since. So now we have to wait TWO MORE years until maybe we are starting to turn things around? Just keep waiting? That is the BS the Front Office tries to feed people. It's ok to disagree with how an inept organization such as ours handles things. As a fan of the team and someone that spends your time and money watching them, you have a right to not agree with everything they say or do.

If we don't show drastic improvement THIS YEAR then K-Lav probably won't resign with us. It doesn't matter if we have Rubio and Adelman, because that's all we've got. If we win like 15 games this year then I won't be surprised one bit if Love leaves. And I can't really say I'd blame him, to be honest.

And it behooves us to win as many games as freakin possible this year, as the Hornets have our unprotected pick. But knowing David $tern, as long as the Wolves finish in the lottery then the Hornets are going to get the #1 overall pick from us. That city is next in line to have the lottery rigged for them. Plus it will help procure a buyer for the franchise. Bank on that happening unless the Wolves somehow make the playoffs, which we all know won't happen.

daddyfatsax wrote: He can't guard wings.

D-Charge trying to guard someone like Durant or LeBron or whichever other athletic SF would be an absolute bloodbath. All the scouting reports said he was a PF. He's bigger than Love. He's kinda slow. There's no way he can defends SF's. Why do people even think he can play SF at all? This confuses me. Just because he made a lot of 3 pointers in college, or what?

No_Love_Sessions wrote: Addition by subtraction works for me. Too bad no teams want any of those guys.

Somewhere in this massive thread someone mentioned Beasley having trade value? I didn't see it after all my responses.

Anyways, he doesn't. The cHeat gave him away to us for two 2nd round picks. He's an inefficient chucker on a bad team. He can't play defense. He follows way too much. He may or may not have attitude issues (I'm not judging here, just stating.) He's going to be a FA. Any GM with a brain wouldn't trade us anything for him right now. If anyone wants him, they can try to sign him as a FA. Although, he's probably going to ask for a ton of money (unwarranted), since he'll probably average like 18 ppg this year.

College Wolf wrote:
But maybe if Adelman has him do shuttle drills all summer he'll be able to play SF, right?

There are literally MAYBE 6 players his size who can play the wing: Lebron, Melo, Artest, Gerald Wallace, Odom, Josh Smith, and Rashard Lewis (maybe?).

So, we can pretty much take out Josh Smith, Gerald Wallace, and Artest since he's not that type of rugged, defensive player. Take out Lebron because he's Lebron. That leaves Melo, Odom, and maybe Rashard Lewis as players roughly his size that prove he has a shot at a successful career on the wing. I'm sure I'm leaving out a player or two as well. Either way, history doesn't bode well for players that big operating on the wing. So, backing Love up for 10 minutes a game and playing alongside him (in the front court) for 20-25 gives him a good 30+ minutes. It will work in the short term...I suppose.

College Wolf wrote:
And all I keep hearing is now now now..

I never said two years to turn it around.. I said two years to become one of the better teams in the conference like Okc or Memphis ext. I belive that without any changes and a full training camp under Adelman their offense can be one of the most efficient in the leauge whiles the defense will be much improved and they can grab the 7th or 8th seed.

I understand why there's a disconnected between us, you're looking at your team from the past years and that's influencing how you're looking at this years team whiles I'm just looking at your team from this year going forward.

And I don't get what you mean Adelman and Rubio is all you got?

By just saying Adelman that means you have a much better offense ( Over time), Less turnovers ( Over time) and much more effort on defense which seemed like some of your biggest weaknesses from what I saw last season And by saying Adelman it means that you're going to get the most out of the players on your roster. And Rubio is one in a generation kind of playmaker. I'm not gonna even mention Williams since you seem so sold against him but I'm pretty sure K-love sees the direction this team is heading. Though I see why you're so doubtful because you've seen the kind of potential dissapointment that comes out of situations like this. As a Jazz fan under a coach like Jerry Sloan I rarley worried about whether or not the pieces fit because he found a way to utalize them in his offense

daddyfatsax wrote: I'm not convinced. You don't draft someone #2 overall so that they can backup the best player on your team. The only reason we keep D-Charge is if we think Love is leaving. And if that happens then it's an epic disaster. If Love leaves it won't matter how many minutes D-Charge plays at PF or SF or whatever, because we are screwed.

JazzUtah wrote: Where have you been the last decade lol? You can't just look at a team "going forward" every single year.

Without (even more!) roster moves, we have ZERO chance at being one of the better teams in the conference in two years. That is a complete fallacy.

I meant, Love looks at this team and all he sees is Rubio and Adelman. That's just my opinion. I have no faith that he would stay based on what we have right now. C'mon, seriously? Why would D-Charge excite Love for the future? It's his backup. I think people need to be more worried about Love leaving after this year if we don't drastically improve soon. I'd hate to say "I told you so" if/when it happens, because that means we will be absolutely screwed.

College Wolf wrote:
I don't know what other people do but I don't "just look at a team "going forward" every single year" I look at a team going forward when I feel their past is in no way reflective of what they will accomplish in upcoming years.. For example, The Clippers or your wolves or it could be in a negative way like the Lakers I feel their past championships have no reflection on whether or not they'll be able to keep up with Okc this year.


When I said two years I was referring to picking up a solid big men and sg through either free agency or trades. And I know that sounds like being over enthusiastic but what you have to realize is the free agent class and who teams are ready to give up changes every year. If your front office is actually dedicated and letting Adelman's staff influence their decisions then within a 2 year span I think a solid big man or Sg would be very manageable.

Why would anyone be excited about D-Charge? I kind of find that nickname funny because it seems to have come after about 3 games into the season when he's unsure about when to drive and when to pull up against Nba defense. But besides that the Kid is extremley talented and if he puts in the effort needs to learn how to play the 3 he can be playing right beside Love. And I'm pretty sure Love sees that Williams is willing to do whatever it takes to get minutes and contribute whether that means slimming down to play the 3 or putting in a lot of practice during the offseason.. The Kid has a good moter.

JazzUtah wrote: The past isn't "completely" reflective of the future. But our inept organization really wears a person down. I just don't have faith in ANYONE running things for our franchise, except Adelman. And he's only the coach.

How do you know any of the above about D-Charge? Those aren't facts. Right now, the only thing I truly agree with is that it appears he has a "good motor", for what that is worth. He has some talent, but for the #2 pick in the draft... he sure hasn't shown me a whole lot yet. Also JazzUtah, please keep in mind I'm not hating on you, nor do I dislike you. I am taking nothing personally and just enjoy debating is all. I hope it doesn't come off like I'm attacking you (or anyone.) Because that is never my intentions at all. I'm glad that we have everyone here at TWB Forums. You are all a good community (except BonK, he sucks at life. )

College Wolf wrote:
I think I've taken all of that from what I've heard about D-Will from arizona and articles I've seen written about him always working hard and trying to find his place as a basketball player and generally working to do whatever he can to please the coach.

Most people in his position aren't playing under a coach like Adelman who expects so many things from a rookie .. he's not gonna just play you because you were the number 2 draft pick who can score and rebound... he's gonna give you minutes based on your improvment in other areas like your defense or your passing abilty.. Or just something like better decision making when it comes to driving and shooting.

I think he's a lot more talented than you're giving him credit for. A lot of rookies who are high draft picks are automaticlly jsut giving the keys to do what they want on the court but under good coaches it's rarely like that. We all know about Larry Brown and rookies...And as a Jazz fan I can tell you how limited D-Will was his rookie year this kid barley got any minutes to start out the season but he eventually came around even though half of the season he was a backup.

Woah woah woah woah woah woah woah woah (in Samuel L Jackson voice) Everyone Chill the Fuck out!


Ok, let's take a 2008 Kevin Love sized step back here for a second.

We could, and should, debate D-Will's game for centuries in a futile attempt to rationalize his future fit in the rotation, but that is not the point. At all.

Sorry if my fellow brethren has covered off on most of this, but let's sum up David Kahn the best we can into as concise of a manner as we can (a difficult task):

David Kahn has assembled this roster like a fantasy basketball team. He has no clue how to built a team of moving, functional parts. He has repeatedly crushed any form of value this team has(had) been building, courtesy of Fred Hoiberg and Kevin McHale (dare I say it but I am once again starting to think Kahn is far worse than McHale ever was, but justifying this point would take about and 4,000 words in order to best explain to the 'you're crazy, WW' crowd (everyone here, usually)). Kahn builds teams like we often do in NBA 2k's association mode. He finds guys who simply aren't good but have a high 'potential' rating. These guys with high 'potential' ratings have for some reason been used as a collective jizz rag by SOME Minnesota fans ever since the Garnett trade and it is flat out madness it remains this way.

Happy New Year.

Look, as DFS and others have astutely pointed out, D-Charge was THE pick to make at #2. He was absolutely still the pick. Personally, I love D Will. You could micromanage and pick apart his game for days but here is why I love D Will - he has an explosive first step we generally only see in elite shooting guards. He can shoot from anywhere on the court, and has a power game that resembles a poor man's Blake Griffin. But, that is an aside. This thread and concept has absolutely nothing to do with D Will's game and potential.

It is all about VALUE. And solid distribution of it. While it was probably a gross over-exaggeration to dub Wes as a valueless chump, Wolves fans have a tendency to assign silly value points to players based on what once was a draft pick selection, without even considering the fact that they suck. Wes could get us something. An upgrade? Not on his own. Could Wes be flipped for rich-man's Ellington Courtney Lee? I would think so and would probably do that trade.

Back to D Will. Williams at this point is probably our #1 trade asset in terms of value (of the guys we would deal). Thus, at this point in the rebuilding process given our lack of trade chips and cap space (thank you Eddy Curry!), and given our asinine holes on the wing, it seems best to better DISTRIBUTE this value on the roster. Currently, and for the, heck, very long term future of this team, the Wolves potentially 2nd or 3rd best player is playing backup to an all-star and will have to play out of position to contribute more than backup minutes. He won't start. Cry or whine a river about trading a #2 pick so early in the year/career (it wont happen no matter how many hundreds of words get flushed out in this post), but this team has MAJOR needs that aren't in the backup big position.

An equal and sensible distribution of this value and assets, with a sprinkle of youth and experience, is what will result in improvement. Until then? This team cannot and will not make the leap, no matter how much fans want it to, or how excited we are about the lockout ending and Rubio getting 12 assists in his 3rd game. Winning in the NBA is about getting quality players on the team, not mindlessly hoping they will materialize out of nowhere. Beasley and Wes are who they are. D Will is truly an unknown. Enough 'if' statements.

WallyWorld wrote:
Well then...that's that. go ahead and lock this thread up because my dude killed it.