A recent discussion with a couple of co workers a day or so ago was spent on why and why not KG has been a bust...

I am on the side, guessing from my name...is that KG is a bust...Is he good? Yes! Has he won an MVP title? Yes...Has his teams been good while in his prime? I would argue yes...I am tired of the excuses people give KG as to how KG NEVER had any support...well maybe the one year...

Well if you look at the original top 50 NBA players of all time, only 10 have not won a championship...9 of the 10 at least made it to the NBA finals and lost...and the other player had won a scoring title...nothing KG has done...

Here is the link to the list of the top 50
www.nba.com/history/players/50greatest.html


In fact, a player of his accolades should be able to carry a team...he was paid like one...He has underachieved his whole career and when the game was and is on the line he does not produce...It is my feeling that the Celtics will choke in the first or second round in the playoffs and the excuses this year will be KG is not in his prime and he was injured this year...Poor KG...

I don't think it is fair to judge KG's body of work in comparison to the other 49 greatest players of all time until his career is over. Just thinking back to recent history, Malone, Stockton, & Barkley are made the finals toward the ends of their careers. If he hasn't made the finals 5 years from now then you can talk to me. But in the meantime these comparisons seem irrelevant.

First off, although I do not agree with your post... welcome to the board nonetheless.


I agree with Bonk that these comparisons are not yet warranted. KG still has another 5+ solid years (if not longer), that he should be able to play at an above average to good level.

Secondly, you are saying he is possibly a bust, but yet comparing him against the 50 greatest players EVER!?!? Shouldn't that fact alone exempt him from bust status? Also, he's still got time to make the Finals. Even if he loses the Finals, that doesn't seem to matter however.

1 guy (out of the Top 50) didn't make it to the Finals, but won a scoring title... well, in my opinion League MVP >>>> Scoring Title. So yeah, I don't get how that means KG is a bust.

Lastly, have you seen the guys that KG had to play with here in Minnesota? He had ONE season with above average talent/help, which was the 03-04 WCF run. If it widely thought that if Sam Cassell had been healthy the Wolves would have made it to, if not won, the NBA Finals that season. I mean, seriously look at the teams that KG carried to 50+ wins and into the playoffs all those years. The only reason we even had the chance to lose in the first round of the playoffs 8 straight seasons was because KG carried the team. However, when you get to the playoffs, all the opposition is far more talented and that's when we couldn't get over the hump... due to our overall team(s) not being very good.


It seems to me that you should be guiding your thoughts towards the Front Office, rather than KG. The Wolves Front Office is what failed KG over his 12 seasons, not KG's individual talent or his play on the court.

BonK wrote:
So by your response, you don't think KG should be on this list??? Shaq is on the list and his career is not over. Stockton, Malone, Jordan, and Barkley were named to this list when they were still playing...since the list was made in 1996...so that point is rebutted

So KG needs another 5 years to prove to you that he has not been a bust??

KG4LVP wrote:

If he makes it to the Finals ONCE, then is he no longer a \"bust\"????

What if the C's make it to the Finals (through the much easier path of the Eastern Conference, mind you) and get swept? Then what? Will he finally shed the \"bust\" label?

Seems like simply making it to the NBA Finals is a weird qualifier for calling a future Hall of Famer a \"bust.\"

College Wolf wrote:
Yeah have you? Let's name a few...

Cassell
Spreewell
Gugliotta
Wally
Billups
Joe Smith
Anthony Peeler
Troy Hudson
Laettner
Hoiberg
Gary Trent
Anthony Carter
Rasho
Steph
Sam Mitchel
Bobby Jackson
JR Rider
Terry Porter

Those are all servicable players in their time...How come many of those players who have won a title with other teams other than KG?? And the spin on from the front office, which the fans bought into that KG just needs more people around him to be successful...

That seems to be the favorite excuse of KG apologists...You would think that with the player of KG's potential he would be able to carry a team to the second round of the playoffs at least more than once...KG DID NOT! And people use the excuse that if Cassell had not been injured what could have been...again another point supporting my arguement...KG can't get it done...he needs help...he needed to be traded to a weaker conference with Ray Allen and Paul Pierce (Pierce is carrying the Celtics this year anyway) in order to reach pay dirt...

KG is a good player don't get me wrong...but I say he is a Bust because he has not at least the finals which is something that a great player needs to achieve before he can become great...

So if it is the front office's fault and nothing KG...than was the front office wrong when they drafted KG???

Last thought...Here is a real mark of greatness:
A WINNING HABIT: Since Tim Duncan joined the Spurs prior to the 1997-98 season, the team has enjoyed remarkable success ... over the nine-year span the Spurs have the best record in the NBA with a 501-205 mark … this gives them a winning percentage of .710 which is the best mark of any team in professional sports during the nine year span ... during this period the Spurs have won three NBA championships (1999, 2003, 2005), held the NBA's best record three times ('98-99, '00-01 and '02-03) and earned six division titles ('98-99, '00-01, '01-02, '02-03, '04-05 and '05-06).
source - www.nba.com/spurs/history/spurs_history.html#29

College Wolf wrote:
He should have made it to the finals already a player of his \"quality\"...but that would put a small feather in his cap, yes. I would like to see him actually win a championship rather than fill out the scorecard every evening with personal stats

KG4LVP wrote:
1.) Your name makes the Daddy want to give you a Seagal-like stare down.
2.) Nice analysis. I disagree for much of it though. Having been around the game at a high level (high school though) for awhile, and now coaching at a JV level, I really appreciate the intricacies of this game. Having followed the man I can tell you that he does SOOO many things better than 99% of the league, that not being the most clutch or natural scorer doesn't make him a bust to me. Bill Russell can be regarded as one of the best players, yet offensively he averaged a very modest 44% from the field with 4 assists and 15 pts. Having the most complete game of any big man since Hakeem is no easy feat. Your in depth analysis is fine, but simply watching the game and watching what he does for a team will tell you otherwise. Antoine Walker was the second leading scorer in the finals. What does that tell you? Jack shyt. That's right.

daddyfatsax wrote:
Ahh a Seagal ( I am thinking Steven Segal) stare down...I loved those movies...

Thank you for the compliment on the analysis and your welcome to the board. Cool that you are coaching...that is awesome!

I must say that to even compare KG to Bill Russell is almost blasphemous...Take a look at Russell's stats and career achievements...and you will see there is not a single real comparison in the dominance of Russell over KG...

\"Bill Russell was the cornerstone of the Boston Celtics' dynasty of the 1960s, an uncanny shotblocker who revolutionized NBA defensive concepts. A five-time NBA Most Valuable Player and a 12-time All-Star, the angular center amassed 21,620 career rebounds, an average of 22.5 per game and led the league in rebounding four times. He had 51 boards in one game, 49 in two others and a dozen consecutive seasons of 1,000 or more rebounds.\" - Source www.nba.com/history/players/russell_bio.html

And more -
NBA champion (1957, '59, '60, '61, '62, '63, '64, '65, '66, '68, '69); NBA MVP (1958, '61, '62, '63, '65);

Russell WAS a revelotionary to the game...KG is also in the dunking age which would tend to boost one's shooting percentage....

As far as Walker...well at least he has won a ring...and was a pretty decent player in his prime that the Wolves should have went after a few years back...

KG4LVP wrote:
Blasphemous? Hardly. In his day Russell was the greatest defensive player (maybe ever), best rebounder, and a very well rounded player.
TODAY, Garnett is ONE of the best defenders, ONE of the best rebounders, and ONE of the most well rounded players. That is where the comparison is. Nothing more. Your criteria for excellence takes into account very little. That is my point.
The title of this thread is almost blasphemous itself. Let's just sum it up. Sure, if you are comparing KG to Russell, Chamberlain, Shaq, Hakeem - then sure, call him a bust. However, Almost everyone here will agree that KG is one of, if not the best, Scottie Pippen to ever play this game. A \"Pippen\" is the ultimate 2nd scorer on a championship team. The player that does EVERYTHING well, but may not be the guy to drop 40 pts leading you to victory. That is what it is.

I just don't understand how KG is considered a \"bust\" simply because he hasn't made it to the Finals.

So, if he wasn't as good as he is, but played on a better team that lost the Finals at one point in his career, he wouldn't be a \"bust\" ???

Simply because he has never had much help throughout his career, and therefore not made the Finals, that makes him a \"bust?\"

Really? One of the Top 50 players to EVER play in the NBA?

That's ridiculous, in my opinion.

College Wolf wrote:
Do you or do you not consider KG one of the greatest that have played the game? From what I have read on this forum I find it hard to believe people would not think KG should be on the top 50 of all time list...I only throw that list out there to show you that KG has not measured up....not even close to the achievments that all of them have...

Funny Rasho goes to the Spurs...wins a championship...Billups goes to the Pistons...wins a championship...Anthony Carter even had success with the Spurs...yet they played with the Big Ticket and they can't even get passed the first round of the playoffs...

Funny Eli Manning was borderline bust until when???? HE WON THE SUPERBOWL...

According to the dictionary: Bust = A failure.

So KG was drafted with the 5th pick in the NBA draft...was he a bust? Let's look at the #5 picks in the last 20 years.

1988 - Mitch Richmond. A very good NBA player, but clearly below KG.
1989 - JR Reid. Self-explanatory.
1990 - Kendall Gill. Ditto.
1991 - Steve Smith. Noticing a trend yet?
1992 - LaPhonso Ellis. Weird how these guys are all MUCH worse than KG ever was.
1993 - Isiah Rider. hahahahaha.
1994 - Juwan Howard. Once again, noticably worse.
1995 - KEVIN GARNETT NBA MVP, 11 time all-star, revolutionized the game, etc.
1996 - Ray Allen. Great player, but clearly not the player Garnett is.
1997 - Tony Battie. Once again, here is a Bust.
1998 - Vince Carter. All-star, but no KG.
1999 - Jonathan Bender. Wow.
2000 - Mike Miller. Good player, not great.
2001 - Jason Richardson. See above.
2002 - Nickoloz Tskitishvili. I am now laughing.
2003 - Dwayne Wade. Obviously a great player. Hard to compare he & KG head to head, but at this point in his career, he is as good, if not better.
2004 - Devin Harris. Another good but not great player.
2005 - Raymond Felton. See above. If that.
2006 - Tyrus Thomas. Has been a bust so far. Oh wait, that word is reserved for KG apparantely.
2007 - Jeff Green. Too early to tell, but far from a KG.

So there you have it - those are the guys drafted where KG was in the past 20 years.
One guy (Dwayne Wade) is possibly on KG's level.
3 guys (Ray Allen, Vince Carter, Mitch Richmond) are multi-year all-stars, but clearly below KG's level.
About half of the remaining guys were good NBA players (not all-stars, but starters). The other half of the remaining guys were the busts. So next time you go and call KG a bust, think about it first. KG is anything but a bust. He has done better than 18 of the other 19 guys picked where he was in the last 20 years. So if he is a bust, so is like 95% of the league.

That is a very interesting list...nice job on the research...

You say KG is revolutionizing the game??? What has he done to revolutionize the game...

Well did KG fail??? You are concentrating on what a beast he was as an individual player...I thought this was a team game...because the excuse is that KG has not been able to win a championship without other players...

There are a couple of things KG has not done that with a player with his talent and abilities has not done...

A.) Go to the NBA finals
B.) Win a championship

If he is \"The Big Ticket\" or the \"Franchise\" he has not done the things that make his team the best...has he been a bust individually, no...BUT if basketball is a team player and the excuse for the failure of KG to bring home the TRUE hardware...well than he would be considered a failure...aka bust

If you swapped Tim Duncan for Kevin Garnett over the past 10 seasons, I guarantee that KG would have won multiple championships and Tim Duncan would have struggled to get out of the first round.

You said it yourself: Basketball is a team game. So why are you criticizing KG when he was clearly surrounded by inferior talent? When did he ever lose a playoff series that he was favored to win?

The West was incredibly stacked the years the Wolves got knocked out of the first round. Had they been in the East, Garnett could have easily made the Finals. In 2001, the Wolves were the best 8th seed ever at 50-32. A 50 win 8th seed? That's ridiculous! Move that team to the other conference and they would have gone extremely far.

KG's lack of post-season success is directly linked to a poor front office, inferior talent, and a vastly surperior conference. Remember, Duncan has had Robinson and Ginobili/Parker. Kobe had Shaq. Shaq had Kobe and Wade. Kevin Garnett has gotten to play with an All-Star twice during his Minnesota career. Tom Gugliotta in 1997 (Garnett's 2nd year in the league) and Sam Cassell in 2004 (Went to the Conference Finals, and probably only lost because said All-Star was hurt).

Welcome to the board! Thanks for sparking an interesting debate, but negative howl for you my friend!