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TOPIC: two memphis trades

two memphis trades 5 years 3 months ago #6702

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sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3226203

Trade 1:
Lakers: Pau Gasol
Memphis: Kwame Brown, Jarvis Crittenton, Aaron McKie's contract, draft rights to Marc Gasol, 1st rounder in 2008, 1st rounder in 2010

Trade 2:
Nets: Stromile Swift
Memphic: Jason Collins

I'm impressed mostly by the boldness of these moves. It should be interesting to see how Gasol works with the Lakers.
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Re:two memphis trades 5 years 3 months ago #6707

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Memphis got completely taken on this deal! They lost their franchise player for what??? 2 1st rounders that are near-guaranteed to be in the 20's? Those players they got certainly aren't going to help much.

I guess they got financial flexibility, but it's going to be even harder to lure free agents to Memphis than Minnesota. I don't really get it.

Personally, I would've given up Theo and Miami's pick plus whatever filler necessary. Pau and Al would be pretty tough to stop.
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Re:two memphis trades 5 years 3 months ago #6717

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What I am more interested in is whether Gasol is what the Lakers need to have a shot at winning the west? He fills a Bynum shaped hole in the line up, but I guess I always thought the Lakers need a good PG more than another big man.

DeROK, I think Memphis don't do all that badly. Sure they didn't get any quality back - Crittenden takes Stoudamire's recently vacated spot in the PG depth chart behind Conley and Lowry and Brown's virtue is his expiring contract. But what they get is Gasol's contract off their books - they were going nowhere with him in the side. They also a chance to rebuild around Gay, Warrick, Conley, Navarro et al with some cap relief.
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Re:two memphis trades 5 years 3 months ago #6723

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Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh what a STEAL for the Lakers.

I am punching myself in the face right now for why the Wolves didn't trade for Gasol!?!?!?! What the hell, I'm pissed.

Theo + McCants + GG + Craig Smith + #1 picks galore for Pau. How do they not do that trade vs the Lakers crappy poo poo platter???


Dangit, this blows. I bet we could have gotten him. I'd like him paired with Big Al. That would have been solid. He's a big man with a legit jumper that could open the lane for Jefferson down low. Yeah, he's not the true \"defensive presence\" at Center that would be ideal, but Big Al + Pau Gasol is better than just Big Al and having to play him at Center.

Lame.
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Re:two memphis trades 5 years 3 months ago #6735

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College Wolf wrote:
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh what a STEAL for the Lakers.

I am punching myself in the face right now for why the Wolves didn't trade for Gasol!?!?!?! What the hell, I'm pissed.

Theo + McCants + GG + Craig Smith + #1 picks galore for Pau. How do they not do that trade vs the Lakers crappy poo poo platter???


Dangit, this blows. I bet we could have gotten him. I'd like him paired with Big Al. That would have been solid. He's a big man with a legit jumper that could open the lane for Jefferson down low. Yeah, he's not the true \"defensive presence\" at Center that would be ideal, but Big Al + Pau Gasol is better than just Big Al and having to play him at Center.

Lame.

Your trade gives up WAY WAY more than the Lakers gave up. I'd say your trades gives up maybe 3 guys who are better than the best guy in the lakers trade plus twolves picks are more valuable.

That said the wolves should have made the move. You figure they'll spend atleast 2 first round picks on a center in the next 5 years. I doubt those 2 picks will get a player of Gasol's stature.

Given the players on the wolves I don't see a defensive juggernaut anytime soon. Gasol would have been a major offensive addition.
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Re:two memphis trades 5 years 3 months ago #6743

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FYCCK. IF LA trades Odom for Kidd I'll throw up all over this keyboard. Even without that trade, this team has the best front court in the league now...Guarantee Stern made this happen. Millions upon millions of dollars are going into the Memphis Front office idiots' pockets under the table. There has got to be an explanation right???

BTW, sucks to be traded for your brother....
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Re:two memphis trades 5 years 3 months ago #6749

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Honestly, I really wonder if this deal is LA getting ready to get JKidd.

Odom/Bynum/Gasol makes no sense. All three of those guys are starters. Are they gonna put Bynum at the 4 and Gasol at the 5? I mean really, that's quite a logjam of talent there.

I'd be willing to put some money on Odom being gone by the trading deadline. Kobe obviously wants Jason Kidd, and I kind of wonder if they'll get him.
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Re:two memphis trades 5 years 3 months ago #6753

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I find it extremely hard to believe that was the best offer on the table for Gasol. I really think something fishy must've went down.

We wouldn't even need the deal CW offered to outbid the Lakers. Theo and Miami's pick would have done it right there. They get the expirings and Miami's #1 is worth faaaaar more than two high 20's picks from LA.

How do we not make that deal? The only thing I can even fathom is that it would certainly kill our draft positioning and maybe the Wolves don't want to fall from the Top 5 into the Top 10, but if that's the case, pull the trigger at the last possible second and sit Gasol with an injury or tank or whatever. That's pretty faulty reasoning to shoot down a huge deal like that.

The only viable explanation is this:

1. Shady dealings by Stern and co. to rebuild LA into a super-power, giving a massively lucrative 4-way battle for power in the West.

2. McHale is too lazy to even pick up the phone and call Memphis. (Possible, but you'd have to think the Grizz would at least call us before pulling the trigger)

3. We're just flat-out stupid and are holding out for some miracle to drop in our laps down the road instead of cashing in on a very solid deal.

4. Taylor is really, really cheap. Gasol has a fat contract, but he'd put butts in the seat once we started winning. You're not going to fill the Target Center with Big Al and bargain basement role players.
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Re:two memphis trades 5 years 3 months ago #6767

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Wow. The more that I think about this, the more depressed I get. I've always liked Gasol's game, even though a lot of people consider him soft or whatever. He's a legit 7 footer, with an awesome offensive game. Yeah, he's not a banger, that's true. However, he is still good for between an 8 and 10 rebounds per game averageeve... which is solid. Combine that with Big Al's 12 rebound per game average and our front court is set for years. Gasol's only 28 years old, so it's not like he's a shell of himself or any of that nonsense.

I wouldn't care if getting Gasol killed our lottery position this year... because there's no one in the draft that could play next season and be as good as Gasol is now! It's a simple fact! It's just like last season when a bunch of people didn't want to trade Foye (or our upcoming draft pick) for AI! What the hell!?!?!? Who could you draft that's as good as Allen Freakin Iverson??? No one! P.S. Foye will never be able to even hold AI's jockstrap, for the record.


@ Pants -

Yes, I know we'd be giving up a lot. But who cares. McCants is addition by subtraction. GG is leaving in free agency. Craig Smith is redundant with Gasol and Gomes around. Ok, so maybe we just give them the Boston #1 pick and say our 2nd rounder this year. Our 2nd rounder this year will be good because it should be a pretty high pick and you don't have to pay guaranteed salary. You can't tell me Memphis wouldn't take this over that craptastic Lakers offer.


@ TrulyRandom -

The Lakers are fine. I think Odom's true position is actually Small Forward anyways. At least, it's where he seems most comfortable. They have the best front line in the league with Bynum (C), Gasol (PF), and Odom (SF.)


@ Derok -

I think it is option #2, from what you listed. It just doesn't make sense to me as why Memphis wouldn't call US??? Wha....? I don't get it. Therefore, maybe it's actually a combination of all 4. I dunno...


This trade stinks.
Question: "Hey Antoine Walker, why do you shoot so many 3's?"

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Re:two memphis trades 5 years 3 months ago #6774

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College Wolf wrote:
Wow. The more that I think about this, the more depressed I get. I've always liked Gasol's game, even though a lot of people consider him soft or whatever. He's a legit 7 footer, with an awesome offensive game. Yeah, he's not a banger, that's true. However, he is still good for between an 8 and 10 rebounds per game averageeve... which is solid. Combine that with Big Al's 12 rebound per game average and our front court is set for years. Gasol's only 28 years old, so it's not like he's a shell of himself or any of that nonsense.

I wouldn't care if getting Gasol killed our lottery position this year... because there's no one in the draft that could play next season and be as good as Gasol is now! It's a simple fact! It's just like last season when a bunch of people didn't want to trade Foye (or our upcoming draft pick) for AI! What the hell!?!?!? Who could you draft that's as good as Allen Freakin Iverson??? No one! P.S. Foye will never be able to even hold AI's jockstrap, for the record.


@ Pants -

Yes, I know we'd be giving up a lot. But who cares. McCants is addition by subtraction. GG is leaving in free agency. Craig Smith is redundant with Gasol and Gomes around. Ok, so maybe we just give them the Boston #1 pick and say our 2nd rounder this year. Our 2nd rounder this year will be good because it should be a pretty high pick and you don't have to pay guaranteed salary. You can't tell me Memphis wouldn't take this over that craptastic Lakers offer.


@ TrulyRandom -

The Lakers are fine. I think Odom's true position is actually Small Forward anyways. At least, it's where he seems most comfortable. They have the best front line in the league with Bynum (C), Gasol (PF), and Odom (SF.)


@ Derok -

I think it is option #2, from what you listed. It just doesn't make sense to me as why Memphis wouldn't call US??? Wha....? I don't get it. Therefore, maybe it's actually a combination of all 4. I dunno...


This trade stinks.

Is there no integrity in this league? Stern fixed this, plain and simple. There are sooo many teams who could have given them a better package (including us). Hell, Boston could have given them a package that average. I am soo depressed. There is absolutely no way we even leave the second round in this conference. Ever.
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Re:two memphis trades 5 years 3 months ago #6778

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daddyfatsax wrote:
Is there no integrity in this league? Stern fixed this, plain and simple. There are sooo many teams who could have given them a better package (including us). Hell, Boston could have given them a package that average. I am soo depressed. There is absolutely no way we even leave the second round in this conference. Ever.


I'm starting to think there is more and more possiblity that it was fixed too. Soooo lame.

Have fun contending, as you said. There are still enough good young teams (LA, Dallas, Golden State, Portland, New Orleans) that I don't think we ever will have much of a chance unless we get much, much more talent... somehow.
Question: "Hey Antoine Walker, why do you shoot so many 3's?"

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Re:two memphis trades 5 years 3 months ago #6781

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DeROK wrote:
I find it extremely hard to believe that was the best offer on the table for Gasol. I really think something fishy must've went down.

it's not fishy at all, DeROK. Memphis are having a fire sale. The Grizzlies owner wants to put the business up for sale, so they wanted to:

(a) get Gasol's contract off the books and get the wage bill down.

(b) not take on any bad contracts from the Lakers.
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Re:two memphis trades 5 years 3 months ago #6782

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AusWolf wrote:
DeROK wrote:
I find it extremely hard to believe that was the best offer on the table for Gasol. I really think something fishy must've went down.

it's not fishy at all, DeROK. Memphis are having a fire sale. The Grizzlies owner wants to put the business up for sale, so they wanted to:

(a) get Gasol's contract off the books and get the wage bill down.

(b) not take on any bad contracts from the Lakers.


The thing is we could have met both of those conditions AND given them more talent in return.

Theo - Expiring
Craig Smith - Young talent and expiring
Gerald Green - Young talent and expiring
McCants - Young talent (or so people think) with 1 year left at 2.6 million

How are we not able to offer a better deal??? Baffling...
Question: "Hey Antoine Walker, why do you shoot so many 3's?"

Answer: "Because there are no 4's."
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Re:two memphis trades 5 years 3 months ago #6799

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The usual problem when chipping in (too) late into discussions to recent developments with already seem to be an old hat: Everything important and / or smart seems to be already said by someone else.

So please forgive me for boring the schrott out of you, but I feel the urge to put my thoughts somewhere and I can’t think of a more deserving place like this…

First of all, I would like to express that I consider all ideas of a somehow “fixed deal” to put L.A. back into contention for the sake of raising interest in the league again as absolute nonsense. I know that paranoia and conspiracy theories are somewhat of a hobby to many people living in the U.S.A., but coming from a sports world where actually fixing is not only wild speculation, but part of sports history and still widespread reality today (by the way: If you haven’t yet, check out this short but very pointed comparison of European and US Basketball by SI’s Ian Thomsen), I really can’t believe David Stern would ever risk so much with something so stupid. No matter how much he has been bashed over the last years, finally one has to admit that Mitch Kupchack is a very solid if not real good GM…choosing Kobe over Shaq, drafting and especially holding on Bynum…good choices as time has shown. OK, he let Caron Butler slip away for Kwame Brown, but hey…it was Brown’s expiring contract that netted them Gasol! So after all, he was just smarter or quicker than everybody else. I hate it as much as everyone, but you gotta respect this.

Although I really don’t think that this deal was “fixed” in any way, Gene Bartow (PoBO) and Chris Wallace (GM) on the other hand should be ashamed of themselves. Recent developments aside, this move nearly reaches the shrewdness of the McHale moves of old. I highly agree with the assumption that Michael Heisley (Owner) probably has forced their hands on trading Pau Gasol as fast as possible and to evaporate as much payroll as possible, given his complaints about non existing revenue in Memphis (I always wished the franchise would have remained in Vancouver…maybe they also should have). A low payroll and some first round picks (although the ones from the Lakers will be low ones) might do wonders in selling the franchise to whomever (wasn’t a group around Chris Laettner rumoured to?), but as I have so often stated, cap space won’t bring home any premium free agents to a rebuilding franchise without at least a top flight point guard or a young superstar project. Gasol sure had to be traded rather sooner than later, because he just did not fit into Memphis system and his contract was hampering the rebuilding process and I have problems judging his real trade value with him being (wrongly) considered soft and unable to carry a team, but it is really hard to believe that there were no better offers available on the market. On the other hand…last year the Bulls reportedly balked at the Gasol trade because they didn’t want to give up Luol Deng…don’t know if they are kicking themselves right now, but that says something of Gasol’s trade value in this league.

I will try to keep things short now, because the usual very basketball wise highly educated reader in this forum will easily be able judge by himself how much this low risk move will affect the Lakers, vaulting them back into contention for what seems an eternity for me. With a bench laden with young but promising roleplayers, the Lakers will now field a squad of
- one of the best young centers in the league (Bynum, 7-0) at the 5,
- a highly skilled, sweet shooting and mobile big that will nicely fit the triangle (Gasol, 7-0) at the 4
- an unselfish do-it-all small forward, maybe the best and most underrated glue-guys in this league (Odom, 6-10) at the 3
to go along with Kobe Bryant (6-6), who seems to have finally grasped what ever was his biggest flaw, the lacking trust in his team mates. Thinking about the fact that the oldest of this guys is Kobe Bryant with 29 and this squad should give most other teams with their length and mobility and pondering how much Gasol will probably benefit from finally being only option number 2 or 3 in defence and offence…this is just plain scary. Depending on Bynum’s return from injury and the time the starting five will need to gel, they likely won’t contend this year immediately, but as much as I hate it…this team has time to wait and will probably use the window when the Spurs are finally aging out and the Hornets and Blazers will still be learning how it’s like to be in the playoffs.
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Re:two memphis trades 5 years 3 months ago #6804

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Maybe I'm took skeptical of conspiracies but I believe that Gasol was gotten on the cheap mostly because of GM laziness. It is very possible the Chris Wallace started negotiating with LA and didn't do the due dilligence to make sure he couldn't get more else where.

Despite denials I'm guessing Wallace was told that getting Gasol off the books was his first priority.

If Stern was really \"fixing\" things how do you explain the Knicks?
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