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TOPIC: New Lockout thread

Lockout Thread 1 year 7 months ago #72408

  • roundhouse
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The owners got the better of the deal in 1999. They got maximum salaries and the rookie pay scale. They tried to get rid of Bird rights, but luckily that never happened. The players got a raise of the minimum salary and the BLE and MLE.

I have no idea how/if it would have turned out if the players didn't hold out for half the season. Probably wouldn't be any Bird rights.
Last Edit: 1 year 7 months ago by roundhouse.
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Lockout Thread 1 year 7 months ago #72409

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roundhouse wrote:
The owners got the better of the deal in 1999. They got maximum salaries and the rookie pay scale. They tried to get rid of Bird rights, but luckily that never happened. The players got a raise of the minimum salary and the BLE and MLE.

I have no idea how/if it would have turned out if the players didn't hold out for half the season. Probably wouldn't be any Bird rights.

The owners trying to get rid of Bird rights all these years is them attempting to step in front of a bus and the players forcing them back. If they want season tickets sold they should not want a teams top players changing teams year after year. Fans get no connection and you get no attendance unless you are awesome.
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Lockout Thread 1 year 7 months ago #72410

  • WallyWorld
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roundhouse wrote:
The owners got the better of the deal in 1999. They got maximum salaries and the rookie pay scale. They tried to get rid of Bird rights, but luckily that never happened. The players got a raise of the minimum salary and the BLE and MLE.

I have no idea how/if it would have turned out if the players didn't hold out for half the season. Probably wouldn't be any Bird rights.

Yeah what I meant by the question is...did their offer improve from Oct-Jan or did it get worse? Was it enough to offset the salary losses incurred from 1/2 a season? Bird rights is one thing that may have been worth holding out for though for all involved.

One thing for certain: I am so tired of picking sides in this one. You could think of a bajillion reasons why both sides are behaving like children (maybe a few bajillion more for the owners considering the players have conceded their entire reported losses). I can say that this event is actually starting to impact my NBA excitement in a negative way. That is a bad sign when the true diehards get fed up.
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Lockout Thread 1 year 7 months ago #72411

  • College Wolf
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I want there to be a season, because I love basketball and the NBA. But if not, then whatever. It's getting really hard to care about either side losing money from cancelled games.

I still think the Owners are the bigger douches here and mostly at fault; but the longer it drags on, the less I care about "needing" to have games played this season. It stinks to not have games, but there are plenty other things I can spend my time on.
Question: "Hey Antoine Walker, why do you shoot so many 3's?"

Answer: "Because there are no 4's."
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Lockout Thread 1 year 7 months ago #72413

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Question: "Hey Antoine Walker, why do you shoot so many 3's?"

Answer: "Because there are no 4's."
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Lockout Thread 1 year 7 months ago #72440

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Daily reading material. Some great stuff here as usual:

In these times, it's hard to find sympathy for NBA owners

Top NBA agent Bartelstein blasts Stern for handling of lockout
One of the agents known to have pushed for that strategy, Mark Bartelstein, echoed the sentiments of players and union officials alike as he looked back on the day the season got shorter. He took great exception to how commissioner David Stern characterized the recent bargaining session on Monday in New York.

"You look at these press conferences, and you're thinking, 'Are you kidding me?' " Bartelstein told SI.com of Stern. "He's the master of spinning a story so as not to tell the entire story or give you a real picture of what he's trying to accomplish.

"I think the owners' strategy all along was to play a game of chicken with the players and see who would blink first. But I would have more respect if they just said, 'We think we're going to be able to jam a horrible deal down the players' throats, and that's what we're going for,' instead of trying to act like you're worried about all these other things that you're not worried about."

Strategy by David Stern, NBA owners is infuriating
There has never been a clearer picture of who the true villain is when it comes to this NBA lockout.

After extended meetings Sunday and Monday, which only appeared to separate the two parties even further and result in the cancellation of two weeks of the regular season, it’s now terribly obvious just how much manipulating is being done here by the NBA’s commissioner and owners.

The NBA Lockout's Biggest Losers

'Road' to NBA labor deal hits unnecessary speed bump

Pointing two fingers

The Path To A Permanent Peace Between NBA Players And Owners
Question: "Hey Antoine Walker, why do you shoot so many 3's?"

Answer: "Because there are no 4's."
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Lockout Thread 1 year 7 months ago #72463

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Question: "Hey Antoine Walker, why do you shoot so many 3's?"

Answer: "Because there are no 4's."
Last Edit: 1 year 7 months ago by College Wolf.
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Lockout Thread 1 year 7 months ago #72476

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Question: "Hey Antoine Walker, why do you shoot so many 3's?"

Answer: "Because there are no 4's."
Last Edit: 1 year 7 months ago by College Wolf.
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Lockout Thread 1 year 7 months ago #72477

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This sums up some stuff about the lockout quite well. It really disgusts me what they are doing here. And the Owners definitely aren't negotiating in good faith either. They want to miss games so they can crush the Player's Union once and for all.
When you parse the particulars of the bargaining process, a prolonged stoppage just makes no sense. The players have already offered significant concessions to help change a system that needs changing. Teams may have lost money under the current system, but the players have recognized that, and have offered to sacrifice $160 million dollars per season. Asking the players to shoulder any more responsibility for the NBA's losses is insulting.

If NBA owners are "at bottom running a business", then they should act like businessmen and take responsibility for their inexplicable business decisions that brought the NBA to this point. If these are truly serious businessmen, they should recognize the hidden and explicit value to owning a piece of a league that's grown steadily for 60 years. Instead, the players are supposed to guarantee them profit opportunities every single year. Who's being greedy and ungrateful?
Question: "Hey Antoine Walker, why do you shoot so many 3's?"

Answer: "Because there are no 4's."
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Lockout Thread 1 year 7 months ago #72509

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More publications about this stupid, endless lockout:


The Rest of the Story


No Games: One NBA Fan's Voice...


The Middle Class Struggle


Why David Stern is full of it
As an NBA fan I want this lockout to end. That said, when I hear David Stern talk, I can’t help but feel more upset at the fact that I am being lied to and the wrong people are being blamed. Instead of locking out the players perhaps the owners should have locked themselves out and hired a new commissioner.

This is really good (and more to it than just the quote below):

The moment the talks fell apart
Here's one explanation of why the players rejected that 50/50 offer: Perhaps they never made it.

Union vice president and Spurs forward Matt Bonner says "Kessler definitely didn't offer 50/50. There's no way."

Bonner points out that it had been a "huge ordeal" to persuade players to agree to take only 53 percent, after a dozen years of earning 57. "That was a huge point of contention. Talking to all these veterans and All-Stars, they were upset we went down to 53. We had to sell them on that. I'm pretty certain Kessler didn't have the authority to offer 50, and nobody in the room would have agreed to that."

Another union official allows Kessler may have said something in the weeks prior that could have been misunderstood as offering 50, but "it's patently false," he says, that Kessler made anything like a proposal. "There's a lot of discussion back and forth that takes place, particularly in the small group meetings. It's a complete mischaracterization to say that whatever happened constituted any kind of formal proposal at that point."

In either case, nothing here can be considered remotely good news for basketball fans. The moment when it seemed like negotiators may have been all together at the same number was the most optimistic of the entire process. That it may have always been a misunderstanding, or more importantly that owners seem to genuinely have no interest in going higher than 50, and players genuinely no interest in going below 53, makes this look bad -- before even touching the thorny issues of the luxury tax, raises and cap exceptions.

Stern said Friday that he's not sure whether he can even get his owners to go for 50 anymore. Meanwhile, I asked Bonner if he thought the owners would to higher than 50, and he said "I hope so, for the sake of the season."

Now it's no longer a story of what Hunter and Stern may be able to hash out in a hotel. Now it's about big groups of owners and players, all across the globe, who are not close to seeing eye-to-eye, but do have final say.
Question: "Hey Antoine Walker, why do you shoot so many 3's?"

Answer: "Because there are no 4's."
Last Edit: 1 year 7 months ago by College Wolf.
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Lockout Thread 1 year 7 months ago #72518

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New Lockout Roundtable discussion on the front page of TWB!

Lockout Week #15: Roundtable Discussion
Question: "Hey Antoine Walker, why do you shoot so many 3's?"

Answer: "Because there are no 4's."
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Lockout Thread 1 year 7 months ago #72522

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Innocent question based in my ignorance. Why don't you delete and or block these spammers making accounts and posting crap?
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Lockout Thread 1 year 7 months ago #72524

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daddyfatsax wrote:
Innocent question based in my ignorance. Why don't you delete and or block these spammers making accounts and posting crap?
Because this forum software isn't very secure so there is tons of it. You have to delete and then go ban every single comment/spammer manually. But then they can just create a new account with a different email address.

I have since given up after deleting and banning them; as I am sick of it after having deleted literally 500+ comments and accounts the past few months.
Question: "Hey Antoine Walker, why do you shoot so many 3's?"

Answer: "Because there are no 4's."
Last Edit: 1 year 7 months ago by College Wolf.
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Lockout Thread 1 year 7 months ago #72541

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Question: "Hey Antoine Walker, why do you shoot so many 3's?"

Answer: "Because there are no 4's."
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New Lockout thread 1 year 7 months ago #72599

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Merged to new thread in hopes of reducing spam. Thanks all for putting up with it.
Last Edit: 1 year 7 months ago by WallyWorld.
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