For some reason this gets me really worked up. I probably shouldn't care this much, but I do. With that said, I think their female Gymastics team should be disqualified, but that won't happen since the Olympics are in China.

As you may or may not know, the gymnasts must turn 16 in the calendar year of the Olympics. However, there are several key female members of the Chinese team that are between 12-14 years old right now. What a complete farce. Anyone that argues their entire team is legitimately 16 years old is delusional. I know... I realize because of their body builds they look younger, but it is beyond ridiculous.

China's response is that their team is legit because their government issued PASSPORTS \"say so.\" Really?!?!?! A country that has been known to be corrupt couldn't give out fake passports?!?! Really???? They expect the world to believe that complete lie?

How I wish they get caught and exposed so badly. It's not the athlete's faults, and it would be too bad for them to lose their medals... but seriously, what a joke.

P.S. Did everyone hear about the girl that \"sang\" some song for the opening ceremonies? Well... China got exposed for this today. They trotted out some young \"good looking\" girl who proceeded to lip sync the entire song. It turns out the REAL singer was hidden backstage because she was too ugly! Can you believe it?!?! The girl was less than 10 years old!

Just goes to show what they are willing to do. This is even more ridiculous than their female gymnastics team underage scandal.

College Wolf wrote:
Tough on the real singer; she is actually just a normal looking kid rather than the Asiatic barbie doll we saw on Friday.

As for the cheating there was an interesting story from the double trap shooting. The Chinese shooter who claimed the bronze had at least three shots that clearly missed counted as hits by local judges. Cost our guy, Atlanta gold medallist Russell Mark, a medal.

The medal count is a very big deal to the Chinese. Particularly in their own house.

I'm sorry guys, but how illusional have you been? The Olympics have been about propaganda and politics since ... well since Hitler first abused the Olympic Games 1936 in Berlin. And to be honest, even back in the acient world of Greece, every of the city states which sent athletes did so for politicial reasons.

So would anyone be truly surprised to learn that 50%, 70% or 90% of the Chinese athletes are drugged up to their jaws? So how huge is the step to send children into the games? Does it matter much if you take an 18 year old who has been drilled and doped since he was 4 just to bring back a gold medal in one event no matter what this \"training\" would mean for his health once he passes his 20th or if you already send the ones who haven't already grown officially adult? Especially in gymnastics all nations have been sending too young and fragile athletes to the games, simply because they are best suited for the things they are asked to do.

But I won't point my finger only on China. They are only employing the same methods the German Democratic Republic has been using for years and I doubt that other nations aren't. It's pretty much the same as with the Tour de Fránce: If it is proven that so many athletes are ridiculously doped, who can anyone keep up with those if he isn't doped as well? Because he's an alien? One of the X-Men, maybe? How can it be that in nearly every sports, world records get abolished every second year? Because of better training methods? Evolution of the human body within a year?

And sorry, CW, the USA are just among those who have been caught doping as much as anyone else in the history of sports, only that here it might be individual doping which is not controlled / ordered by the government. And speaking of children, only yesterday I saw two of the girls the US sent to the synchronized diving contests and they were barely 16 as well. So don't be preachy. Maybe they weren't beaten by their coaches if they missed a dive in training like I could imagine with the Chinese (but maybe they are far more subtle already, I don't care), but I guess their parents put at least as much psychological pressure on them as well.

Therefore, I have learned to misstrust every sport that lives of sheer muscular strength and fitness or which lives of sheer repetition of a trained course of motion and I don't enjoy watching those. Of course I tend to believe that basically all athletes play by the same rules (better: ignore the rules in the same way) so one could call it a fair contest, but I want to see achievements of humans, not those of pharmacy.

The whole idea of the olympics doesn't leave much more than a bitter taste in my mouth and if it wasn't for the chance to watch some really talented players that even if doped to increase their performance, still live by their talent in some other sports, I wouldn't even care about them. Because in my opinion, the medal standings are more an indication of which country is the most willing to actively torture their children or at least ignore them torturing themselves.

As always, thinking about this makes me very sad.

Sanyarin wrote:

I have meetings this morning so I have to make this quick... anyways, the age limit I was referring to is only for Gymnastics Sanyarin.. This year one country had a 14 year old diver, and in years past it is not uncommong for some swimmers to be young too.

Here, I actually found a link:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=1006022712821


I know its not off the Olympic website or anything, but all the google links I found are saying the same thing in regards to the age limits.

Fundamental difference between doping and what China has done...
A. The age limit is in place to protect children. Doping charges have all be against adults.
B. It is government sponsored. The US government has put Marion Jones in jail because she lied during prosecution of a doping ring.

The US has given up a lot of the moral high ground in the last decade but I don't think we are the bad guys on this one.

That 14 year old diver was a Brit (Tom Daley) and as CW said he was following the rules... My guess is diving doesn't have the history of abuse that gymnastics does (or people aren't paying as much attention to diving).

...

Interesting sidebar. Given the very narrow window of being at the top of your game in gymnastics it would be possible for the greatest gymnast ever to come and go without making an Olympic splash if she happened to be 15 the year of an Olympics. I think rules to keep adults from driving young children into the ground for sports are good, but on an individual basis that would really, really stink if you were the 14/15 year old who couldn't compete.

THX for the link and good wishes for your meeting. Must be something important if you leave the forum for it.

I wasn't, aren't and don't want to be aware of how young some of the athletes are that countries send to the Olympics and if it hadn't been that a basketball game would have started a few minutes later, I wouldn't have even noticed the two US girls I was refering to.

But my point is more like this:

It doesn't matter what the RULES or AGE LIMITS for this or that special event look like. In a world as addicted to false fame and wealth as ours, it is self-evident that those rules will be bent or even broken at every opportunity. And as long as the organisations supposed to control the observation of the rules are paid or even under control by the same governmental or economic bodies that send athletes to contests in the first place, they can't be considered to have any positive effect on the situation.

So unless the whole ethics of sports as it stands right now changes completely and reverts itself to the true olympic ideals, we can't expect that any event or sport would be a \"clean\" one.

Sadly, that even if we managed to establish an ethic codex that would effectively ban doping and wouldn't allow for anyone into professional or olympic contests that isn't legally allowed to buy alcohol, this would not prevent children to be missused for the competitive nature of humans. Because even if you don't dope, you still need to forfeit your childhood and probably much of your health by starting to train for your sport as soon as you have learned to stand on your own legs, maybe even earlier, always pressured by coaches and your families. So the difference between competing that younf and only training isn't that big in my opinion, anyways.

But I know, I am bitter. Sorry about that.

I agree with Pants that there is a HUGE difference between Doping and circumventing the age limit. As he said its to protect the children and is being driven by their own goverment! In the US, the goverment is trying to stop doping, not encourage it! Another side note: On top of the fact that these girls are underage, they are taken from their families as young as 3 years old, and basically forced to practice gymnastics as their life. The Chinese female captain, now 20 years old, left her family at 3 years old and most times only saw them once per year. Not cheating, but interesting note for anyone that didn't know.

Also, Sanyarin, I think you were alluding to the point that all countries are doing what they can to win... aka circumventing the age limit? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that is what you were getting at in one paragraph? Anyways, if you watched the female gymnastics, it is painfully obvious that China is the only country with such underage athletes. Believe me, if you watch them and observe, it is very easy to tell.


Here is an article on CNNSI.com about this:


IOC Turns a Blind Eye to China

Here's an exerpt from another CNNSI.com article:



http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/olympics/2008/writers/em_swift/08/13/china.us/index.html?eref=T1

Geesh Sanyarin sure seems bitter! It seems to me that doping wasn't what this thread was originally about, it was about the age limit. Completely different subjects. Also, it seems as if the Chinese government is contributing to this type of rule breaking, while I do not think many other governments are doing the same. Thank God we are keeping Manlyon Jones in jail here in the US. The reason so many of the swimming records are getting broken is apparantely because of new research which has yielded a much \"faster\" swimsuit-thingy, as well as pools which are laid out to be wider and deeper, which contributes to faster times. As far as track goes, 30 of the 40 T&Field world records stand from before the year 2000, so that does not far into your category of \"records getting broken every 2 years\". I don't know why you are so cynical about the Olympics and all of the participants, but I feel that overall the Olympics is a beautiful thing which should be enjoyed by all.

I was reading the two CNNSI articles and apparently the New York Times discovered the age \"discrepancies\" more than a month ago, with supposed proof of multiple gymnasists being well under age 16. Hmmmm.

Funny there isn't more public outrage about this, especially since the IOC emphasises \"fair play\" so much. I guess they don't want to anger the sponsers (aka the $$$) and the 1.3 billion Chinese citizens.

What a joke.

College Wolf wrote:
She was hidden back stage because she looks like Carmelo Anthony.

I know the whole \"everybody cheats some\" theory may be true... but what China is doing is beyond me. No, it's not, I knew that a pseudo-capitalisy-hidden-communism country where people starve to death on one street, while they're shooting a Jackie Chan top-dollar movie next block would resort to such acts.

What is beyond me is that the other countries or PROPER OFFICIALS aren't outraged.

What pissed ME off? Today's 200m woman's butterfly final swim. As some of you may know, we (Poland) have the former Olympic Champion Otylia Jedrzejczak. Her biggest rival and WR holder is Aussie Jessica Schipper.

So what happens? Gold and Silver go to two chinese swimmers of whom no one has ever heard about and the winner BREAKS THE WORLD RECORD BY A TOTAL OF 1.5 seconds. In the three swims she took part (qualifiers, semifinal and final) the girl IMPROVED HER PERSONAL BEST BY 4 SECONDS.

4 seconds. proffesional athlete. 2 days. That's too much for my head.

Schipper was third collecting the bronze, Jedrzejczak was fourth. The two Chinese girls were no match even for them. Wonder if there was a doping test right after the swim.

I won't be surprised if that CHinese 110m hurdle runner wins the Gold, despite at least 3 US runners being in better form (and having had way better results this year).

czaras wrote:
Wow, that is interesting.

I feel like we need more Olympic chatter on this board. Especially considering that we have a wonderful group of non-Americans that post on here...

czaras wrote:

Completely agree. Howl for you!