It is what it is. We have hundreds of schools competing in NCAA that are owned by religious organizations. We don't have to agree with their "code of conduct" but we have to respect their right to have them. The only other option is to not allow them to participate. Which is it?

Minnesota Polars wrote:
Yea, in a vacuum, that's fine. I see your logic and like I said, hooray for BYU for sticking to their word of "honor."

First, let's address the point you make that "these days colleges too easily close their eyes to a bad thing a key player does..." Agreed. Great point. However, BYU righteously adhering to their set of Mormon principles when someone decides to tattle is far from setting a stern line in the sand for "immoral" conduct. The idea that the students are by and large abiding by this honor code is wishful thinking. What frustrates me is that it's basically like "don't ask, don't tell." As long as nobody tells on you, you don't get caught, or you don't admit it then it's all fine. I just don't fashion that to be an institution adhering to an honor code.It seems to be more of an institution blindly clinging to an outdated policy. Caffeine, coffee, and tea are forbidden but soda is ok as long as nobody makes a big deal about it. No, that's called the blind leading the blind based on outdated tradition.

Anyway, so the young man apparently came forth in an admirable fashion as he wanted to maintain his character or whatever. So he's expelled. By my understanding then BYU's honor is defined by a list of rules rather than the reasons those rules exist in the first place, (in the minds of Mormons) to call forth honor. If this young man didn't exemplify Mormon honor by confessing his sin than I give up ever trying to understand religion.

daddyfatsax wrote:
So I was listening to Barreiro on KFAN today, and someone called in that used to go to BYU. Basically, he said EVERYONE breaks all these rules. There are tons of people having pre-marital sex. Basically, it's like every other college in America. Obviously, that is how you would imagine. That "honor code" is absurd.

And Davies is 1 of like 20 or so (at least, not very many) black students on campus. I'm not sayin anything, but I'm just sayin...

Pulling out the race card is grabbing at straws. That is not the case.

I live in Utah and I assure you that what we believe to be petty and antiquated rules are taken very seriously by the church and the school. To assume everyone on the team breaks these rules and Davies was the only one who got caught is also probably not true. The people I work and live with every day take these rules very seriously. It's not unreasonable to believe that the players do as well. Listen to Danny Ainge.

I agree with Daddy with the fact that confessing his "sin" should have been an admirable act worthy of the code of conduct. But this is their religion, not ours. We do not need to agree to respect.

One of the beautiful things about this country is our religious tolerance. We need to respect the rules of conduct of all the diverse schools competing in NCAA.

College Wolf wrote:
Given that nature of these rules I tend to believe the caller but I've also heard many people involved with drugs in interviews say in a given area or town everyone is doing them. Yeah everyone in their narrow world is. That doesn't mean everyone or even most people. At any given college no where near everyone is going out and partying every weekend.

mmaland wrote:
Respect. That's why this board is a better place to be than most. Several folks have already completely bashed this institution and you brave few have calmly opposed that opinion without getting ugly.

Again, I'll not condemn them for holding to principles, I'll bash them for blindly turning an eye to reality and/or for adhering to rules for rules sake rather than making thoughtful decisions based on the principles they claim to hold to. I think it negates the entire principles they have built a foundation upon. Then again, my screen name is DaddyFatSax so I have no credibility.

As Daddy said, props to everyone in this conversation. And especially much respect to those defending BYU. Can't say I agree with them, but it's certainly within their right as a private institution.

Deep down I don't really think it's about race, but that is another "factor" in this entire ongoing saga that should be considered. Or perhaps might have some little effect. I dunno. That's all I was getting at, although I did kinda lead into it. My apologies for that.

Here's an article by a Salt Lake City Columnist:

BYU should offer an open hand, not a clenched fist

The 'factor' is making a martyr out of someone. Nothing more. Nothing less. Certainly within their right as an institution, indeed. But, this is hypocricy, which I think a lot of religious principles are in general, at least when it comes to these ancient ideas

Good point WW. The hypocracy of religion simply infuriates me (I'm not talking about JUST this situation... but in general and all the time.)

Also I have a question: Would the same thing have happened if this were Jimmer? I'm not so sure...

Good article CW, thanks for posting. If we think, as a society, that values or rules are unjust, stupid, unfair, unconstitutional, etc. we take collective action. Because we've agreed on particular freedoms and this is a private institution, they are within their right and our conversation is simply one of conflicting values - those of Twolvesbloggers and those of BYU Mormons. I think we all agree that they do have a right to do this and that someone adhering to a set of values in their life is a valiant character trait.

It's this idea of blind faith and outdated tradition that baffles me. It's only 11:07 am here and already I've masturbated, drank coffee, smoked weed, cussed out people in traffic, googly-eyed college freshmen girls, and tried to cheat on an exam. As Sheen would say, Duh, I'm winning.

daddyfatsax wrote:
I never even thought of that. Good point right there. Like others have said others on campus probably don't stick to the honor code, but the fact that he possibly came forward (haven't heard whether he was ratted on or told them himself) and said he broke the code would make me to believe that he only gets a couple game suspension not the possibility of expulsion. Very good point DaddyFatSax. Howl.

Daddy's last paragraph of his last comment = WIN.

LOL!

HA!!! Fantastic paragraph. An ideal Friday morning.

Disclaimer. the following may be offensive to some, for that feel free to counter. it is also off-topic:

I think a strong point was made about adhering to outdated moral standards. Power to them for standing up the code, but outdated it is indeed. Think of those joke books where they list funny laws from the 1800's. Those were real laws at some point, that were taken seriously, yet were changed after they made no sense in modern society. I really believe this sort of thing applies. If you dont think so, then why? Because the Bible and such is based on faith versus coded laws? Ancient principles were still decided and written by human beings, not a mythical figure. How in the world do we know what the big guy might want from us, especially thousands of years later? This makes no sense to me.

As MMAland said, our country has built a very tolerant environment, relatively speaking. This is true, but humans are still, by nature, conformists to a T. Even non-conformists conform to non-conformists (does that make sense)? It's an innate instinctual tendency, of which there are very few exceptions, that is immensely competitive in nature. Take this board as a top-of-mind and minimalist example. Think about it. With that said, what turns me off is others being forceful with principles that are, in reality when you boil down to it, a misguided attempt to COMPETITIVELY build on the innate principle of conformity, and not always true faith and spiritual understanding. Faith is an after-effect to the original biologically-driven idea, which does create a lot of good in this world I will admit. Furthermore, I dont like having to throw out a disclaimer every time a religion topic comes up. And I feel that many (not all) religious folks tend to be more pushy than neutral to non-religious types (which is a 'group' of non-confirmists just the same).

I would like to think that, despite our nation being more tolerant than just about any country, that God (whether you believe in God or not is not important in this discussion) would be the same way. That he is deep down a reasonable man and wants what's best for each individual. He goes through ups and downs, gets the blues, and indulges every now and again. This could mean others thinking differently than he may on a matter, and I would think he is okay with that after watching society evolve over the past 2011 years or so. It is how the world has evolved...and yet the ancient beliefs are still the way religious society bases their laws on (and of course, when you are religious you apparantly get to pick and choose what sins you violate....which drives me nuts to no end).

Enough rambling, just trying to push along what could be an interesting OT talk. If you are offended, my apologies.

Man, this really sucks for Davies. His girlfriend doesn't even go to BYU.

Brandon Davies Girlfriend