Final Score: Michigan 38 Notre Dame 0

Is there any hope?

As I'm sure you guys have heard all week, these recent developments have brought up a whole host of questions, especially in relation to the early termination of Tyrone Willingham. Was he fired too soon? People look at what he's doing at Washington (even though they got beaten soundly today) and wonder if he wasn't given a full shot in South Bend.

Ryan, I'm sure you're happy.

The good news for Irish fans: ND has the #1 overall class so far this year for verbal commits, however too many losses may scare away prospective athletes and they may end up signing with another team. At this point, I don't think Weiss has a real possibility of being fired...but SOMETHING has to be done to curb the blowout losses.

Ryan, I'm sure you're happy.

Wow. I'm seriously stunned that they are THIS bad. Wow. I've always been somewhat of a ND fan, so I'm pulling for them. I can't believe they got blanked by Michigan. Wow.

Is there hope in sight? Are they going to lose every game this season?

P.S. I definitely think Willingham got the short end of the stick, so to speak.

whiskeydizzy wrote:
Let me clear something up. When I hate teams with large bandwagon fanbases I am always torn on how to feel.

On one hand, it weeds out the casual, love-'em-when-they're-good fans from the true fans that love their team through thick and thin.

On the other I feel bad for the true blue fans because it can be very tough to watch your team lose week in and week out (especially the way the Irish have been losing). Certain things usually curb me from feeling TOO bad in these situations (if the team has won championships recently, if I hate players on the team, or if it is trendy to like the team...notably Red Sox and Yankees).

In the case of the Irish it's funny to me to see how many people have disowned them, but I do with they were better for you (mainly because you aren't a dick about being a fan when they are good...at least not that I have seen. Also I don't really care about NCAAF...I like Georgia Tech and want them to do well but I could care less if they lose).

What I really want to know is you opinions about what you said with this:

\"As I'm sure you guys have heard all week, these recent developments have brought up a whole host of questions, especially in relation to the early termination of Tyrone Willingham. Was he fired too soon? People look at what he's doing at Washington (even though they got beaten soundly today) and wonder if he wasn't given a full shot in South Bend.\"

Now that Brady Quinn isn't there Weiss isn't looking like the offensive genius that he was made out to be. I don't expect them to be scoring 38 points a game but their offense has just been absolutely pathetic.

Well, the last time Notre Dame won a national championship was in 1988, I was 4 and I didn't know how to be a d*ck back then (hell, I barely had one). But thanks for the kind words Ryan. Both CW and I had a Miami bandwagon college roommate, so we feel your pain.

Notre Dame was originally founded because of a demand for education not being filled by the existing schools of the era. Many schools in the 1800s would deny admission to anyone who was of certain socially inferior ethnicities. So there was no place for many of the Irish imigrants to go and learn (the Nickname \"Fighting Irish\" came from local Irishmen who went off to fight in WWII). In the beginning, Notre Dame was actually denied admission into the Legacy Big 10 conference because of the ethnic makeup of the student body. This is one of the major reasons Notre Dame isn't in the Big 10 today (despite the standing offer from the Big 10). Of course, the other is $$$ but we'll save that for a different post.

This history lesson does lead somewhere...I found it odd that a school founded because of intolerance would make Willingham (the first and only black coach in its history) the first coach to be let go before the end of his contract. I'm not saying race had anything to do with the decision. I personally think the decision was made because the AD thought Urban Meyer was on his way, but Weiss does not seem to be performing much better. I guess I just find it Ironic, that's all. I would sincerely doubt that was ever the ADs intentions, but of course the media brings this stuff up because they need something to write or talk about.

Barring an unforseen turn around in his teams play, Weiss' record will be almost identical to Willingham's after 3 seasons

3 years under TW

W-L 21-15
30 pt losses 5
NOTE: From 1964-2000 there was a total of 4 30 point losses.
Bowl Wins 0
Shutout Losses 2

3 years under Weiss (projecting 4-8 this year)

W-L 23-15
30 pt losses 2
Bowl Wins 0
Shutout Losses 1

Not a ton of difference, and Weiss may still be able to add to his 30 pt losses and Shutout losses with the remaining schedule.

I guess for a guy we have locked up through 2015, a supposed offensive genious, things look bleak right now. Where do you even start when the team gets EMBARASSED 3 weeks in a row?? I don't have the answers, but I'm praying to Touchdown Jesus that Charlie does...

Wow... that was a great \"history\" post. Well done.

I didn't like the Willingham firing at the time either. Weiss could be a better coach, who knows. But man... WHAT has happened the past three weeks?!?! Wow.

whiskeydizzy wrote:
BAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA - funny! And a great post all-around as well. You are definitely getting my next howl for that. Very interesting history lesson.

BonK wrote:
Thanks man! I thought it was interesting when I first heard the whole Notre Dame immigrant situation. Before that, I was a HUGE proponent of the Irish moving into the Big 10 because the Big 10 is my favorite conference and the Irish are my favorite team, so I thought it would work out perfectly. But the more I learn about Notre Dame the more I realize what an advantage they have being independent...financially, recruiting-wise, and scheduling in addition to the revenge for denying the \"immigrant school\" admission.

I am soooo SICK of BULL**** writer and their non-sense!!!

Weis isn't looking too bright right now
Michael Rosenberg

Now this ... this, is rich.


Notre Dame is on the hook for another $20-some-million to an offensive genius who can't pick up a first down, let alone a win. They are dead last in the country in total offense by a wide margin. They are staring 0-8 in the face.
Notre Dame, 0-8?

Notre Dame, with its own TV contract?

Notre Dame, with the richest history in college sports?

(I did an Amazon books search for \"Notre Dame football,\" and got 1,743 results. Yeah, sure, a lot of those must be repeats. But that was more than I got for \"Alabama football\" and \"Nebraska football\" combined.)

Welcome to Charlie Weis' world. I don't live there — few media types do — but I picture Weis walking around his office, asking everybody, \"Aren't I smart? I am, right? So this can't be me.\"

Weis is in major trouble at Notre Dame, and this goes beyond the 2007 season. Charlie Weis is a Me Guy. That doesn't mean he's a bad guy or a bad coach. I'm sure he loves his school. But from the moment he arrived in South Bend, his program has been all about him — his story, his head, his ability. Weis loves it that way. This is a man who looks at his reflection in his Super Bowl rings and grins.


Charlie Weis may be the only coach in America in more hot water than Lloyd Carr. (Gregory Shamus / Getty Images)

Weis is supposed to be cut from the same mold as Bill Parcells, a Jersey guy with a big ego who builds championship teams. But Parcells would never have taken a new job and announced that his teams would have a \"decided schematic advantage\" against every opponent, as Weis did. If Parcells ever took a college job, he never would have told people how well his team would do once these other coaches got a load of these NFL plays, as Weis did.

Parcells would have talked about winning. And toughness. Everybody would know there was a new sheriff in town. But he never, ever, would have talked about how his schemes would be the difference.

Do you understand what Charlie Weis did?

He took credit for winning before he even won.

See, when you tell the world that your plays will win championships, you are saying that YOU will win championships.

Not your players.

Not talent.

You.

You and your big, macho, Einstein-esque brain.

Weis is having the kind of month that would embarrass Bob Davie. His team got blown out by Penn State, Georgia Tech and Michigan . His starting quarterback for the first game, Demetrius Jones, bailed on him and says Weis misled him over the summer by saying he had a fair shot to compete with a healthy Jimmy Clausen.

And then there is that little scandal brewing in Foxborough, Mass.

You might wonder what the Patriots' videotaping scandal has to do with Charlie Weis. Maybe nothing. But it's a safe bet that Jets coach Eric Mangini knew about the Pats' espionage from his time working under Bill Belichick from 2002-05. Weis was there for three of those four years.

Who benefits from knowing a team's defensive signals?

The offensive coordinator, of course.

Charlie Weis.

Now, maybe Belichick's franchise was squeaky clean back then. I don't know. But ask yourself this:

What if this scandal had broken in early December 2004, just after Tyrone Willingham was fired?

I don't think Charlie Weis would have had a chance in hell of getting the Notre Dame job. This is a school that supposedly declined to hire Rick Majerus as its basketball coach because he admitted cheating on exams as a kid. Notre Dame does not want to smell a scandal within six counties of South Bend.

Anyway, Weis is there now, and he isn't going anywhere. Notre Dame gave him a 10-year contract after he almost beat USC his first year. (I wonder ... what do you get for actually beating USC? Do they name the stadium after you?)

Weis's way worked for a while, because Weis does have a bright offensive mind, and his players were impressed by his Super Bowl rings and were thirsty for some wins. They also had Brady Quinn -- a talented, established, hard-working quarterback.

In Weis' first two years, Notre Dame made Bowl Championship Series games. The Fighting Irish got crushed in both, but that was mostly because Ohio State and Louisiana State had superior talent. Weis did an excellent job his first two years.

Now? Their offensive line is quite possibly the worst in the whole nation. Their quarterback, Jimmy Clausen, shows great promise, but like most freshmen, he holds the ball too long. Their linemen can't pass-block. Their receivers can't get open.

If they don't beat Michigan State at home Saturday, watch out below. Notre Dame then visits Purdue and UCLA and comes home for Boston College and USC. If the Fighting Irish lose to Michigan State, 0-8 is not just possible. It's likely.

Weis defenders say Tyrone Willingham deserves most of the blame for the depleted roster, because Willingham's recruiting nosedived.

OK, fine.

Does Willingham get credit for bringing in Brady Quinn?

Weis has brought in three recruiting classes. The first one was a transition class, but the last two were not. I think most Notre Dame fans understood the Fighting Irish would not be very good this year. But in your third year at Notre Dame, the team should at least be competitive.

I wonder if Weis will bring in talent and put too much of it on offense, to show that his schemes really do work.

I wonder if he will ever win at Notre Dame, the way he was supposed to win there.

I'm glad you love your Xs and Os, Charlie, but how about some Ws?

A) Willingham didn't recruit Quinn, Ndukwe the Irish safety for the last 4 years did. They were friends and Ndukwe informed Ty of Quinn's interest.

The offensive line is terrible!!! But guess how many OL Ty recruited in his last two years at ND (2003 & 2004). FOUR!!!

C) This should make you angry too, Derok. Just because you once worked for Belichick, or knew him, or dated his sister DOESN'T MEAN YOU USED TO CHEAT!!! It's ridiculous to assume Belichick himself even cheated before this year...why would Mangini not blow the whistle last year???? Didn't he play him twice then too?

D) Weiss had a top 4 recruiting class last year, a top 20 the year before and is projected #1 this year (if all the verbal commits remain)...he deserves to have his chance to play with his own players.

Do some RESEARCH before you put this sort of crap up on the 'net...

whiskeydizzy wrote:

Good counter-points. At least one of the two of you knows how to do some actual research. Hint: It wasn't that author.

College Wolf wrote:
Yeah, unfortunately I have no idea how to make a subpoint 'B'...all I can get is that sunglasses guy