The Blazers are 8-1 in December. Their only loss was to the Spurs. Since, they have rolled off 8 straight.

Here's Roy's numbers during that time (the first one is the loss)

Points-Assists-Rebounds

4-5-3

26-7-9

25-6-5

26-9-8

16-3-3

21-7-5

29-4-4

26-11-6

24-8-3

This guy is a winner.

Full Stats for the season -
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/gamelog?playerId=3027&univLogin02=stateChanged

Wow. That is astounding. Great post. After reading this, how can anyone is their right mind say that they still think Foye is better than Roy?! There is no way Randy is putting up those types of numbers if he is healthy, much less equating them to that many wins on a team that is basically on paper just as ****** the Wolves.

Come on, let's be real. Just as I suggested in another thread, how many of you were lamenting the decision as he controlled the fourth quarters last year and Roy was injured? I admit I was fine with it. I thought, and still do think they both will be pretty good. I couldn't have predicted this for Roy, nor could I have predicted this injury for Foye.

No doubt, at this point in time I'd rather have Roy over Foye. No argument there.

I just think we need to wait and see how things play out in the long run to see if it was a good move or not. What if KG and Roy had gotten us to the 11th or 12th worst record last year and we lost our pick to the clips? We wouldn't have Brewer. Also, if we had Roy instead of an injured Foye, we might not have as good of a shot of landing a top pick this coming draft.

Like I said, from a pure basketball standpoint I'm taking Roy over Foye every time at the moment. But I don't think the final chapter has been written here. Remember, Damon Stoudamire was the ROY in 95, not KG. Will things end up being that drastic? I'm sure not. But it's just too early to tell. There's enough upside to Foye and our situation where I'm not going to say with 100% certainty that things won't work out in our favor eventually.

daddyfatsax wrote:
How many fourth quarters was Foye controlling last year? I think three or four, and that's it. This team won 32 games and they blew a lot of fourth quarter leads last year. Also, he had an injury, but am I missing who won Rookie of the Year last year or was it not Brandon Roy? I think I'm being very realistic.

DeROK wrote:
That's probably true, but, as I've stated over and over, last year, at draft time, the answer to the question, \"What can you do to help KG right now?\" was Brandon Roy. If we're playing in a world of what ifs, maybe we win a few more games that convinces the inept front office that you can still possibly win with KG's contract and you make one last run by going over the cap.

DeROK wrote:
I also want to reiterate that I don't think Foye is bad. It's seriously not my intention to hate on Foye. I just think (a) Roy's game fit in well with the team we had last season and, (b) Foye certainly needs more work and development than Brandon Roy AND his ceiling isn't any higher. Roy was the right guy for last year's team to set up a three-four year final run with KG. Notwithstanding all that, Foye is who we have and I'll put up 5-1 that Foye doesn't piece together 8 games in a row this season that are this good.

DeROK Wrote:
DeROK, this is actuall a solid point worth looking at. Where would we be?

Let's assume the Wolves, with Roy, would have been a low playoff seed and/or not in playoffs, but still lost their pick and let's assume Roy still won Rookie of the Year and the front office kept KG. (On a side note, if they had Roy and won a few more games in February, is Dwayne Casey still the guy or was he on eggshells the entire year).

So - Mike James still goes to the Rockets for Juwan Howard, who stays because he wanted to play with KG. Let's also assume we still make the Miami Trade because that was independent of the KG trade and the salaries still work out to that point. Buy out T-Hud. You still got Craig Smith in the second round, too.

KG, Howard, Roy, Craig Smith, Antoine Walker possibly at small forward, McCants getting a lot more open shots instead of dribbling for 10 seconds and shooting with a hand in his face, Chris Richard still gets drafted in second round. Marko possibly improved like his is this season backing Roy up and spelling McCants at shooting guard. Madsen is the emergency guy. This is a team with size and some good open shooters. You would get this year's pick because the Boston trade pick was designed to be two years following the Clipper's pick. Walker and Howard come off the books after next season, which leaves you with: KG with two years left on the extension he signed with us, Roy going into his final team option rookie contract if he's not already resigned, Marko, assuming he hasn't been traded, Madsen in the last year of his deal, Craig Smith, assuming he was resigned, chris richards if you kept him, one first round pick from this season's upcoming draft, and the rest would be fresh, new free agent pickups. That would leave an 09-10 and 10-11 run with KG in the twilight of his prime assuming you picked up the proper free agents and Roy continued to do what he's doing.

TheOldLogo wrote:
To be fair, you weren't here last year were you? Maybe so. So many people were VERY happy with Foye. Either way, with maybe half as many minutes as Roy, Foye's stats were comparable, with Foye showing a lot of potential. ROY means what really? This year Durant will win ROY because he plays unlimited minutes and chucks the ball. Foye, Roy, Gay, and probably 3 or 4 more players could have put up as good or better numbers than him given that many shots. ROY is a fine award, but as Derok said, let's wait and see how things turn out. In maybe a year or two things will shake out and we'll see who we would have rather had.

You're right, I wasn't here last year and that's fine that people were happy with Foye.

What I did do is go to 42 of 43 games at the Target Center last year. Foye averaged 22.3 minutes a game to Roy's 35.2 minutes per game, so that's correct, although it's not quite half like you state. But there's a reason why he averaged 35.2 minutes a game whereas Foye averaged 22.3 and that's because he was more NBA ready than Randy Foye. If you look at what I've written above and break down what I'm trying to say, I'm not making an argument of who's going to be better in 5 years Foye/Roy. I'm making the argument that, given a site that - albeit I wasn't here - is dedicated to the Wolves, it seems like it was equally dedicated to Kevin Garnett. Under the \"The Wolves need to make the team better for KG\" issue which I'm willing to wager was discussed here on this site when I wasn't here, Brandon Roy's NBA-ready-right-out-of-college-game-to-the-level-that-allows-him-to-play-on-the-floor-for-35-minutes-a-game skill set would have been a better scenario to surrounding KG with players he needed to win right away.

And on ROY, I agree, I think it's a weak award. However, the only reason I brought up Rookie of the Year was because you rasied the point, and to sum up your point, that Foye was basically controlling 4th quarters where Roy was injured? If that's the case, as you pointed out, you are now arguing that it's because Roy got more minutes, which directly contradicts the argument to which you started \"let's be real\". I used the Rookie of the Year argument to show that Roy wasn't just sitting on the bench injured. In fact, he was on the floor averaging 35.2 minutes per game and played well enough to be recognized as the best rookie in the league last year. I really hope Foye develops into a 20 ppg, 8 assits player because I am a Wolves fan first, even more than a KG fan, as evidenced by the amount of money I've dumped on 86 home games over two seasons, including this one. However, KG is my favorite player and Brandon Roy would have helped him win more games last year than Randy Foye and he would still possibly be here and we would possibly not be 3-18.

TheOldLogo wrote:
Fair enough. that is alot to respond to with very little argument. I Don't understand your assertion that I have contradicted myself. If you wish to receive clarification tell me what you mean exactly. Could be my poor articulation. Either way, KG wasn't staying. We are a losing franchise and will be such as long as it's run the way it is. I've stated this over and over. They would have botched Roy/KG up as well.

Yeah, this is right. Casey would have sat Roy, like he did McCants and Foy, and played Mike James through 40 games.

Contradiction was probably the wrong word. I meant it in a way that you first said Roy was injured the whole time, and then coming back with he played more minutes. Either way, you're right about the franchise, they need some changes before these same front office guys spend all the cap room they just created.

I still don't get how we have two of the guys from the Sports Guy's Atrocious GM Summit in our front office. We should probably hire Billy King, too, now that he's available.

WOW... so many awesome looking posts in this thread. Howl for starting this! I'm super busy at work and don't have any time to read these. Hopefully later...

I'd just like to add that during the draft party two years ago at Target Center I was SUPER DUPER happy we drafted Roy. Then we traded him for Foye and I got SUPER DUPER sad... which also resulted in me getting colossally wasted.

That is all. Continue on.

I wasn't down on Foye, but the move didn't make much sense at the time for winning with KG. Then again, no moves made sense after the Western Conference Championship series, including offering Spreewell 3 years/21 million (too much). Then making a trade in which (a) we traded away the best player, (b) we got back the worst contract, and (c) we gave away a 1st-round draft pick. Then the Mike James signing, the Hassell extension (too much), and the Madsen extension (too much and too long). Firing Flip. Taking a chance on a first-year coach, and then not giving him the proper opportunity in addition to making another trade while he was trying to build chemistry (another trade where (a) we traded away the best player, and draft pick, although we traded away the worst player - Kandi). Then, replacing him with a proven loser. OH, and keeping the same guys in the front office that boned the thing in the first place (and adding Rob Babcock, mastermind of the Vince Carter 25-cents-on-the-dollar trade).

Oy.

And I would just like to add that I was neutral in the Foye v. Roy debate initially, and probably even a little bit pro-Foye. So I wasn't saying \"I told you so\" by any means, but there are still some people who think Foye is better than Roy, and at this point, I don't see how one could think such things.

[/quote]

WHOA,WHOA,WHOA. Please elaborate. This thread can go totally off topic here but I am very passionate about the Casey issue. Please, please elaborate.

We hired Casey knowing he didn't have prior head coaching experience, and knowing that he was taking over a team (and a superstar) that was very used to Flip Saunder's methods/playbooks/etc. This isn't Casey specific because I think you could apply this to any first-time coach (and really any coach) taking over the team in 05-06.

I'm not sure if he was the right guy or not and I definitely didn't like the way he handled the three rookies that played under him, but here's the explanation -

There's the automatic things that would have applied to any coach taking this team over:

1) Borderline disgruntled and definitely frustrated superstar wanting desparately to win;

2) Team accustomed to a certain style of play for ten years;

3) Overpaid, whine-about-minutes tweener guard that looked like Tracy Chapman (Hudson);

4) Michael Olowakandi ('nuff said);

5) Super-unfortunate, even tragic, heart problems for Hoiberg, who could come off the bench and ball-handle, play defense, and had a lethal jump shot.

Now, all of the above are conditions for any coach knowingly taking this job. Here's how Casey, or any other coach, would have been screwed while in thfe job:

1) The Jaric trade - Players have to adjust to a new coach AND a new point guard, who is worse.

2) The Celtics Trade - Middle of your rookie coaching campaign and you inherit an outside-shooting, non-rebounding center (Blount), a me-first, half-effort shooting guard/small forward (Davis), an extremely green point guard (Banks) while trading away your best shooter and only three point threat (Wally).

3) Wittman's hiring - As soon as Wittman was rehired, the local media already drew the conclusion that he would be coaching by the end of the season. I wonder if Casey came to work one morning before the season and saw McHale and Wittman talking about wallpaper pattern's for the office when Wittman took over.

4) This is from an edit - Mike James signing. TWO NEW POINT GUARDS in two years.

Not a great situation for any new coach, much less Casey.