Wow. Dude, you are seriously underestimating Harden. Do you realize he is only 23? He shot a higher effective shooting % than Steve Nash last year, and he kind of plays defense. As close to a sure thing for next Manu as can be. I would easily trade Martin, a high risk Lamb, and a couple protected/late 1sts for Manu at 23.

Great trade for Houston. Reading Beard's interview, I am gathering that he may be more competitive and wants to be the leader more so than playing a supporting role. The anti-LeBron if you will (or at least LeBron 3 years ago).

wolfenstein wrote:
Mr. Murphs must be a Lakers fan

Harden is clearly a stud, there's no denying that. Personally, I think if he was on a shooting guard deprived team like the TWolves have been in the past; and playing with Love and Rubio... he would have been a gigantic STUD. Like, a top 10 player in the NBA type stud with 35+ minutes per game.

And also personally, I don't think it was a *terrible* deal for the Thunder, but it was also clearly a good deal for the Rockets.

The Thunder’s Epic Failure

More Perspectives on How the Thunder Got the Thunder Plan Wrong

Wages of Wins Podcast: Harden and Owners

Yeah, I mean 1) They should have sucked it up and given Harden the max. To lose him over $4M is weak. He was probably more important than Westbrook in their success last year. He got shut down by Shane Battier and LeBron in the Finals. Which makes him... what? Like every single other player in the league not named Durant?

2) Given that they weren't going to extend him the max, what they traded him for is acceptable. I mean, if you understand that you are going to lose him, you can't complain about Martin, Lamb, and 2 firsts. Just... still.

3) Could Kevin Martin and Thabo Sefolosha be more different basketball players? I don't know what will happen if we ever see them on the court at the same time. There is a chance that neither will cross half court and OKC will spend the entire time playing 4 on 5 at both ends. If they ever were to collide they would probably explode and create Scottie Pippen.

Hahaha that's funny (and possibly true!)

Also, I guess we need to point out that Harden can get 5 years for $80 million from the Rockets. The Thunder couldn't give him five years because they gave their 1 birdright max deal to Westbrook (like how the Wolves are apparently saving our 1 max deal for Rubio.)

So really, Harden will get like $25 million more from the Rockets than what the Thunder offered. Huge difference for a 23 year old, and I don't think there is an honest person that could say that doesn't make a difference. The NBA *is* a business, as we all know with professional sports.

I think it's actually a good move for both franchises, to be honest. The Thunder would have been capped out if they kept Harden, and now they get more flexibility (Martin's expiring deal + Lamb on rookie contract + 3 primo draft picks), with not a TON of drop off in overall talent over the long-term.

I don't think my questions of whether Harden is an elite talent deserving of max money and whether Houston is smart in putting all that money into Harden, Asik and Lin are too far fetched. An article on it...


NBA PM: Is James Harden A Max Player?
By Bill Ingram
Senior NBA Editor

There are a flurry of questions in the minds of NBA fans in the wake of Saturday night’s blockbuster trade between the Houston Rockets and the Oklahoma City Thunder. Did the Thunder take a step back? Is Houston a playoff team now? Did the Rockets give up too much? Did Oklahoma City get the best deal possible?

I spent a good deal of the morning answering those questions to one degree or another in my chat, so be sure you’ve read that.

There’s another question, however, that would seem to overshadow the others: Is James Harden truly a maximum contract type of player? That, after all, is the reason he was traded. The Thunder did not believe him to be a max player, while the Houston Rockets, with less to lose, were willing to make that kind of commitment.

By now, most NBA fans are familiar with the concept of Money Ball, which was made famous to casual sports fans by the movie of the same name. It’s also no secret to most NBA fans that general managers like OKC’s Sam Presti and Houston’s Daryl Morey are disciples of the statistical side of player analysis. The question we should be asking, then, is how far do we have to dig into the mountain of stats to find something that makes Harden look like a max player?

We start at the top, his basic stats that everyone understands. No, not his 13.5 points per game and his 28.6 percent shooting in the preseason. Preseason action is not a particularly good gauge for veteran players. We’ll also throw out his dismal NBA Finals run last season, in which he failed to score in double figures in three of his team’s five games. Overall, he is a player who has improved across the board in each of his three seasons, and averaged 16.8 points, 4.1 rebounds and 3.7 assists per game last year for the Thunder. He also shot 49 percent from the field, 39 percent from three and 85 percent from the foul line – all career bests. Those aren’t exactly Kobe Bryant or even Joe Johnson numbers, but they are solid, and they earned him the league’s Sixth Man of the Year award. Still, a max contract is not due a player with Harden’s stat line.

Many NBA fans know to go at least one level deeper when looking at stats, taking into account a player’s PER, or Player Efficiency Rating. Even there, however, Harden ranks just 30th in the NBA, and there are a lot of players who ranked above him who are not close to being max contract players. Nope, we have to keep digging.

Taking a look at each NBA players’ “True Shooting Percentage,” which takes into account field goals, free throws and three-point shots, we start to find a little more value in Harden. Last season he ranked fourth in the NBA, trailing only Tyson Chandler, Steve Novak and Manu Ginobili with a .660 TSP. The next chart down is number of wins added, where Harden (10.0) ranks third among shooting guards behind Dwyane Wade (12.8) and Kobe Bryant (12.7). Now we’re starting to see why Houston thinks Harden has a great deal more upside than he has shown in his first three seasons.

What does all of that mean? In a nutshell, Harden scored 66 percent of the time when he shot the ball last season, and he was in a reserve role in all but two of his games. The Rockets would like to project that out and see if he can score at a similar clip when he’s playing 10 more minutes and getting, perhaps, 10 more shots per game. In short, Houston hopes that the numbers hold and Harden rises to become the best shooting guard in the NBA this season, eclipsing Bryant and Wade.

Of course, there is a bigger question facing Rockets owner Les Alexander, who is set to pay $70 million for Harden, and will shell out roughly $13.6 million apiece for Jeremy Lin and Omer Asik three years out. Can a team built around Harden, Lin and Asik compete for a championship? And if not, isn’t that a lot of money to spend on a team that, on paper, is not currently a playoff team? Also, while Morey and his staff look at the cap hit, which is roughly $8.3 million per season for three seasons for Lin and Asik, the checks they will cash in three years will be that $13.6 million number.

That’s going to be a couple of awfully tough checks to write for an owner whose team is not close to being in the mix of Western Conference contenders.

College Wolf wrote:
I agree that in terms of a trade package, the Thunder did alright.....but the Rockets clearly won this deal. Morey has redeemed himself now that his roster looks quasi-normal, Asik looks like a beast, and Harden will be an immediate 20+ PPG efficient scorer. Plus Houston still has room for next year's free agency. They are a new threat.

Beard is probably one of the most talk about players around here. It will be interesting to see how Beard evolves in Houston.

College Wolf wrote:
Well that is misleading. It's not like he'd be out of the league in four years after his contract ran out. He'd be coming off a championship in his prime...ready for another max contract. So I don't know what you mean.

Murphs, Zgoda just wrote an article on how racist the Wolves are, doesn't make it true.

Plenty of articles are written every day. This doesn't make me think Houston messed up here. Do you feel the same way about Brook Lopez and Hibbert? Because surely Harden is a bigger impact player than those two (For the record, I don't like either of those contracts).

Murphs56 wrote:
I'm with Big Tod. I mean, is Harden really a max player? Is he better than Joe Johnson? His defense was bad in the playoffs. He didn't come to play in The Finals. Maybe this 6th man role was perfect for him and he just blew it. If I was him I would've signed the 4 year/55 mil. deal with OKC, stayed with the buddies, and continued on the championship, 6th man of the year train. Now he will be in Houston getting paid a slight percentage more for a below average team whose season ends in April. He will get less attention being a star on a bad team than a main cog on a great team. He's not on the same level as Durantula & Westbrook. What is wrong with taking just slightly below the max to stay in an ideal situation? He blew it.

2 more things on this trade:

1. Harden was clearly the 12th man on the US Olympic team. A bit over his head? His per 36 numbers in the NBA looked great because that role was perfect for him.

2. Guaranteed McHale is going to find some playing time for Minnesota's own Cole Aldridge.

BonK wrote:
Does that mean Davis was better than him? Not true.

Anyway, you seem to be assuming Harden is the end of Harden's game. The point is that Harden will keep getting better, like he's done, to become the cream of the crop. Kobe is about done. Wade is on the downside. Not many "True" 2's exist that will get in his way other than Alexey Shved and Malcolm Lee.

Think of it this way, when Googs was the Wolves best producer and little ol, skinny KG was throwing up 15 and 8, who did you KNOW was the future? Regardless of how Corliss Williamson may have just owned him, you knew the future.

Harden is going to be get better, and is already very good. "Max" is irrelevant. If "max" is only reserved for Durant, Lebron, and Rubio - the best 3 players in the league, then of course he's not worth it.

I agree that Harden will only get better. He's clearly got the skills and is young. And he's already one of the best SG's in the league.

The only thing is how will he do as THE MAN on Houston, going against the best defender every night? On OKC, he was playing against backups, or defended by lesser players when he was on the court with Durant and Westbrook.

I think he'll have better stats than so far in his career, but it's not like he'll suddenly start averaging 30 points per game or anything crazy.

The only important thing is that Harden is a max player for HOUSTON. Maybe a lot of other teams wouldn't be willing to give him max money, but Houston is desperate for good players. Their best players pre-trade were Lin, Martin, and Asik. Complete lack of top-end talent like that will get you a top 3 pick in the draft, low ticket sales, and a fired GM/coach. Harden is clearly the best player on that team now, and will get to show his skills.

Harden is worth max money, period. He isn't a top 10 player, but in this day and age every team pays somebody the max. Name 30 players that project better than Harden over the next 4 years. Name 6 shooting guards that project better than Harden. You can't.

Eric Gordon's Brandon Roy knees got max money. Roy Hibbert's dance moves got max money. Tell me, I beg you, how James Harden's Beard doesn't get max money.