I was just wondering, is anyone keeping score of the win-loss record of the Pacers playing WITH Jermaine O'Neal compared to their record playing without him? They seem to play so much better and more successful without being forced to dump the ball into the post to watch O'Neal trying to get a shot up without any hope of getting it back until the next possession. He seems to be a better fit to their offence when he is on the injured list.

I have often labeled O'Neal as the poor man's KG, but right now, it seems like an insult to Garnett to have him mentioned in any reference to O'Neal. And adding \"injury prone\" to \"overrated\" isn't helping his standing in my humble opinion. With his core statistics dropping year after year (except for the rebounds, but those are kind of stagnating), there is absolutely no chance that I would consider him a franchise player anymore...if he ever really was one. But being paid like one, I do not see why anyone would trade for O'Neal's contract (2 years at nearly 20 Mil. $) only to have him average almost 15 points and almost 10 rebounds a game.

I can't believe that O'Neal's name was mentioned so often in the \"Kobe Bryant Spectacular\" as one of the possible \"stars\" the Lakers would like to aqquire to appease Bryant, creating the second Bryant-O'Neal combo in franchise history. KG and Bryant...ok, maybe that would have had a chance of success, but O'Neal & Bryant? No way! And didn't featured all mentioned trade scenarios the package of Bynum and Odom for whomever? I would not even trade just the young and ever increasing Bynum straight up for O'Neal, even if it was allowed by salary-cap-rules, because he is already averaing nearly as good numbers as O'Neal.

But I am wandering from the subject again...originally, I just wanted to know if anyone possibly knows who the Pacers' win-loss records compares with and without O'Neal ...

Where does JO fit in below...?

Yesterday's Great big men: Malone, Shaq, Robinson, HAKEEM (GREATEST), Googs...(j/k), etc.

Today's Great Big men: KG, TD, Sheed (no longer), Webber (like Sheed, fits better in the yesterday list), Marion, etc., Camby, B. Wallace (See Webber),

Tomorrow's Great Big men: Howard, Bosh, Boozer, Jefferson, Amare, etc.

Jermaine O'Neal, without his injuries could have very well fit into today's or tomorrow's big men list. But he hasn't been able to materialize, and thus...an injury prone above average player.

Forgot about Brand and Gasol. I'd take either of them over JO as well. Even with Brand's injury.

daddyfatsax wrote:

Dangit... I just read an article last week on CNNSI.com about JON, and it had a chart for the Pacers win-lost records with and without JON. I couldn't find it though and was really busy today at work. So, perhaps if someone has time and/or is really curious, you may want to try and find it.

To answer Daddy, I think a healthy JON would fit into \"Today's Stars\" because he's too old to be \"Tomorrow's Great Big Men.\" But yeah, he definitely had the skills to be one of today's best bigs. Too bad he hasn't been able to stay healthy over the years.

There are a TON of guys I'd take in a heartbeat over JON. Especially considering his contract...

All of the posts in this thread are awesome. Great thread. THat's all.