How far do the Hawks have to go to make Joe's contract worth it? I think we can safely say if the Hawks hadn't overpaid him and he walked they wouldn't be out of the 1st round. I'll say the conference finals would be enough as long as the next 5 years are playoff teams.

Eastern Conference Finals at least once, and playoffs every year of his contract extension. (Maybe we give them 1 mulligan year of missing the playoffs during his extension.)

Although, if the Hawks don't keep their core guys or stop adding to the team, then all bets are off and you can't blame Joe Johnson for future failures. But I would assume they will keep everyone and make a run while JJ is under his extension.

I think, in a way, the JJ discussion is slightly comparable to the Love extension discussion. While I won't dabble into opinionated things, you can see where Atlanta was caught between a rock and a hard place. They HAD to sign him to the deal or he was gone, as was the team. What would the Hawks be without him? I'd say a no man's land team (8-13 in the draft order). Kind of another reason why i don't understand the J Smoove love, as in he isn't more than a 3rd option, but that is definitely a conversation for another time.

Scratch the Love comparison....it is more like the KG contracts when he was here. A huge amount of money, but mandatory to keep him. This begs the question: would you have rather let KG walk, or pay the cash? You pay the cash....every. single. time.

PS... to the ever-increasing nitpickers around here I obviously understand KG>>>>>JJ. You get the point.

We nitpick because of comments like this. No one has EVER said to just let Love go for nothing. Those of us against a max deal for Love say we want to trade him. We have also all said that if he isn't traded, and if it comes down to a max deal or lose him... then we would all (begrudgingly) give him the max deal.

And obviously no one would let KG walk. You just can't let stars walk in the NBA if you want any chance with winning, the fans, and future players. You only let guys walk in extreme examples of age/injury.

...

I never even mentioned the faintest idea of Love walking for nothing; nor made the slightest attempt to reopen that can of worms. I even throw in a nitpick disclaimer and the nitpicks continue.

I was just trying to draw a situational comparison between our own Garnett/Love situations, and why the Hawks overpaid. Conversely, their options to upgrade the team are very hindered. But would it have been better to let him walk? I say absolutely not.

That's I was trying to say.

WallyWorld wrote:
Oh yeah... upon re-reading it's not a big deal and I misunderstood some. Sorry about that.

My bottom line is you almost never let a big star walk. I totally agree with you there. Especially not in the NBA of all leagues.

It's all good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, I mean what options did Atlanta have especially in the summer of 2010? It could even be argued they lucked out being able to resign him while maintaining their core. ATL lucked out by drafting well to coincide with the Johnson deals, so they still have some years left in the contending tank.

If I thought anyone, at the time, would have ridden the coattails it would have been Johnson. Did he resign with Atlanta pre-Lebron? I think so. He probably caught wind he would be left out of the three a-ego's and stood pat. But no New York or Chicago? That was odd, no?

WallyWorld wrote:
Yeah, ATL had no other options so they had to overpay to keep him. It was a STOOPID contract, but understandable. You can't just lose guys like that for nothing.

JJ resigned with ATL pre-LeBron. He or Amar'e were the first to sign that summer... can't remember which guy was first. Also, NY and Chicago could give him nowhere near the same money as ATL, so it makes sense why JJ stayed in Atlanta for all that cash.

Joe got a lot more money from ATL than he could get from anyone else. The above posts read like it was a no brainer giving him that deal. I felt they it was the right move but they were panned in many many circles for doing it.

I think the KG analogy is actually spot on. He got way more money that he really should have at that point. The famous $100+ deal came with a fair amount below his ceiling so he is fathomable he could have pulled a Luol Deng,stopped getting better and truly murdered this franchise.

pants wrote:
True.

Although, we got screwed because KG got the huge deal, then the CBA changed, and they didn't godfather in his contract or help out the Wolves in any way. Totally screwed our cap for years because of the CBA change. Frickin $tern.

Yeah the media ripped that deal to shreds, but they fail to remotely acknowledge the context behind the situation, which is of course, typical:

-What if there was a bidding war with New York and the Hawks won?
-Does anyone think the Hawks GM, or any GM other than Kahn just tosses out that kind of cash without some negotiating or discussion? I doubt he just said "here is $120 million bucks, go get some hookers."
-What do you do, let him walk? Who or what did teams with cap space have to give in trade that would have kept Atl at this level?
-Atlanta was doomed on a Wolves level before Johnson arrived. I want to say they had just as poor attendance as the Wolves. There are deeper ramifications, business-wise.

So yes to that end it is a no-brainer, especially considering they have other talent locked in long-term, which the Wolves didn't have

WallyWorld wrote:
Hahahahahahahaha. Howl!

Seriously though, I am happy the Hawks are doing well so far these playoffs, despite their terrible ownership and bloated salary situation.

It's good for the NBA for teams to do well. Sucks for the NBA though that guys like JJ get those huge deals in the first place, but that's another discussion for another day.

WallyWorld wrote:
Yep that is what they do. It is terribly annoying.

Similarly with all the NFL draft grades it seems like everyone who drafted a QB got a bad grade. It is amazing how much the media even in sports is horribly risk averse. Love the guy who is a certain starter (no chance to be more), hate the guy who can be an all star or nobody. Love punting on 4th down OR going for it and making it.

Honestly if a team doesn't have the most important position in the game filled they have two options (that will get them a good grade) draft a guy in the late rounds or draft Peyton Manning in the 1st round. That is all. Stupid.

And this isn't Ponder related. Every single QB taken in the 1st round generated grade mark downs.

A JJ/Love comparison doesn't ring true because even with Love on his rookie salary, the wolves are the very worst team in the league. Giving him the max only makes things worse from there.

The Hawks were deciding between overpaying JJ and continuing to make the playoffs, or letting him go and possibly not making the playoffs and/or semi-rebuilding. The thing I don't get is why did they throw so much money at him? Was anybody else offering him anything close to that? They didn't mess up by re-signing him, they messed up by backing up a dumptruck full of money to his front door. Very similar to the Arenas negotiations where they said "hey take as much money as you want" and he actually took like $15 million less than they were offering.