BonK wrote:
Can't agree more. I suggest anyone that STILL doubts what you are saying check into first time punishments for other people charged with dogfighting. No other penalties even begin to compare what happened to Vick.

He lost over ONE HUNDRED MILLION dollars and went to jail for almost two years. And now people are STILL advocating that he can't continue on with his livelihood (playing football) if some team is willing to give him a chance? That's absurd. And to be honest, it makes me question whether or not racism is involved with people that say he shouldn't be allowed back into the league.

If this happened to your neighbor, would you say that he couldn't go out and try to get a job in the field that he went to college for, after have done his time and paid the price??? Pffff...

Guibec - While I see where you are coming from, I think you misunderstood my statements. The legal system is what baffles me here. What Vick did to "property," by law was not punishable in the manner he was punished. No precedent has been set as similar offenses haven't EVER come close to being so aggressively punished. It's simply unexplainable unless you delve into CW's theory of race, class, status, etc. playing into the sentencing.

Ogishkemuncie - Your opinion is fine, as is CW's. No argument there.

Perhaps I'm naive to not give two flying phycks about these athletes outside of their professions, but I don't. I pay no attention to the Big Ben stories out now. I could not care less about Vick's, Kobe's, Artest's, Kidd's, or any other athlete's personal issues. I watch them because i enjoy watchng them do something I can only dream about. I have a pretty different take on life and could also not care less about meeting these athletes. When I've encountered Twolves' players or Vikings at clubs, ehh, I haven't cared much. I've been more excited to go to a Michael Eric Dyson speech or to hear Obama when he was the excel. If you don't idolize these men these things don't have much of an impact. If you put their actions in perspective and look at them objectively, my above argument about the severity of Vick's actions vs his punishment, you can't help but admit he should be back in the league.

Just my opinion.

I don't feel this is close minded at all. I said I felt other law breakers should also be banned from professional sports (Spouse beaters, girlfriend beaters, date rapers, drunk drivers, etc.). Michael Vick has every right to pursue whatever job he can legally hold. He will more than likely wind up playing in the NFL again. But I wish he wouldn't or couldn't. The NFL has no legal obligation to offer him a job. They could simply say his actions violate an employee code of conduct and he is not eligible to be employed.

I am a school teacher. I see students everyday who venerate sports figures who are incredibly poor role models. Young people (and not so young people) don't bother to separate their sports accomplishments from their mishaps elsewhere.

Michael Vick is not a victim. He made choices and they have consequences. The excessive level that the law may have punished him is not what I am referring to. Like others here, I also believe he was over-prosecuted because of his notoriety. But he has no inherent right to return to the NFL. No one does.

Some will say, well the NFL has players who have committed worse crimes playing right now. I agree they do. I wish they were working somewhere else, too. Many of the biggest names have black marks on their reputations that the sycophantic sports establishment will gloss over. Kobe, Jason Kidd, Ray Lewis, and on and on and on. Sports writers will spew ad infinitum about merely annoying characters like Terrell Owens, but ignore much bigger elephants in the room.

Don't underestimate the emotional response to someone who has demonstrated cruelty to animals. Dogs are completely dependent upon their owners. My statement is simply that I don't believe athletic ability should trump everything else in following the rules of society. Michael Vick probably wouldn't have been in the position he found himself if society hadn't looked the other way many, many times while he was growing up. I truly think it would be better for Michael Vick in the long run if he chose another path.

I gave you a Howl Daddy. Well spoken.

guibec wrote:
Not sure I'm following you. Animals are "property" by law. not women or black people, nor will they ever be. Is it still murder if it's hunting? What are your thoughts on bull fighting? Anyway...I'll simply have to disagree with your connection between lynching and rape. It seems to imply that eventually we'll wise up and animals will finally get their rights as we revolutionize the world into a vegan society that no longer domesticates animals or tries to confine them. Animals are animals, not humans. While Vick deserved to be punished for such cruelty, he also deserved to be punished according to LAW. LAW has punished other such offenders very minimally when compared to Vick because quite simply, the destruction of "property" by law has never amounted to such destruction of ones life. Look up animal abuse offenders and compare them to Vick.

Vick is not someone I'd probably hang out with because I love dogs and in my opinion he's an a-hole. But then again, my co-workers think I'm a socialist because I support Obama.

Not that I doubt your stat drop, but I'm not sure any of us can begin to simply drop in correlation statistics and expect us to believe that's valid. Common sense would tell us that though. If you like to slaughter animals, be it cattle or dogs, you can probably stomach slaughtering a human unfortunately.

ogishkemuncie wrote:
WOW, THIS IS SOME GOOD CONVERSATION FELLAS!

Compelling argument my friend. Perhaps the better answer (in my utopian world) is that children grow up enjoying athletes for what they are and what they have to offer and instead idolize difference makers and honorable figures in our world - athletes or not.

ehh. I have no qualms with your p.o.v. I do think that teaching students, our kids, our siblings, etc. appropriate values will override our celebrity idol's idiocy.

daddyfatsax wrote:

Keep in mind, Dogfighting isn't even illegal in every country in the world. I agree its horrible and terrible, but what makes our laws to outlaw it any more "right" than the laws of a country in which it's not illegal?

Just food for thought.

daddyfatsax wrote:
I concur. I hope no one takes anything personally, because I don't.

I really hope this thread don't die.

In any case, whether you like Vick or not, T-Jack sprained his MCL!

daddyfatsax wrote:
Bump.

It won't.

cbunker07 wrote:
TJack and Sage are hot garbage. We're screwed with them.

Start Booty.

How can the MN media continue to consider the Vikes a title contender without a QB? Hopefully Sage and/or Jackson turn to be average this year, providing us with at least a middle of the road QB...How depressing...

daddyfatsax wrote:Exactly... everything we need them to do is NOT SCREW UP. With such hard nosed defence and a marvelous RB like Peterson all they need to do is to be average, lol. If the Bears got to the SuperBowl with a QB like Rex Grossman... right.

daddyfatsax wrote:
No doubt. It's so much more depressing than the TWolves because the Vikes could be *right there.*

Sigh.