Yesterday, CBS' Ken Berger had the latest on the 'Melo situation:
The Knicks would send three starters -- Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari, and Raymond Felton -- to Denver for Anthony, Chauncey Billups, Shelden Williamsand Anthony Carter, sources said Sunday. The Nuggets would get the Knicks' first-round pick in 2014, while Minnesota would get Eddy Curry's expiring contract and Anthony Randolph from New York. Curry would then be waived, and the Knicks would send as much as $3 million to Minnesota to pay his freight. The Wolves also would send Corey Brewer to Denver in the proposed deal. Carter must approve the trade and waive his Bird rights for the trade to be approved.
Four points of discussion for this fine, snowy Monday:
1. There have been many Anthony Randolph trade scenarios thrown out there this season, all loosely pointing to this. Some reports like the above have the Wolves trading Brewer, some say a first rounder, and some say both. Either way, for the Wolves to not get Randolph would be surprising. We can all but guarantee the addition of another long, athletic big left-handed big man from New York in some capacity. Regardless of what happens, whether we give up a first round pick, Brewer or both:
2. This is another example of Kahn's continued demonstrated incompetence and a very questionable use of resources. Consider the perceived value and opportunity costs given up by the Wolves: 1) Worst case scenario: Brewer, a starting player on our team, a first round pick, or both. Decent value as it is and certainly more than enough value for an 11th man on a Knicks team, However, 2) We are renting all of our cap space in favor of a potentially better deal until the offseason, a time when our cap room will be in the $6-$7 million range, potentially less with the Randolph addition. All of this so New York can: 3. Move an albatross deal that will free up enough cash so they can acquire Carmelo Anthony and 2 former Wolves point guards, one of which was a NBA Finals MVP, thus solidifyng their future and essentially making Donnie Walsh's Knicks rebuild a staunch success. If this doesn't get any Wolves fans left on team-Kahn to fold, then I will start to rudely question sanity. Here is what Kahn is saying if this goes down:
"Donnie, yes. We will forgo our trade deadline plan. We will allow you to use all of our cap space, which will decrease by about 50-60% this off-season... n'er to return. In addition we will give you a first round pick, our starting shooting guard, or both! Just so you can free up enough money to acquire a top 10 NBA player and a former NBA Finals MVP! All we ask is for you to give us your 11th man in return, who plays a position of relatively little need. Do we have an accord?"
As a very comparable and relevant example of why this is incompetence at the highest of NBA levels, consider:
3. A few years back the 76ers were trying to free up about $4 million so they could get far enough under the cap to sign Elton Brand. In order to do so they they had to shed some salary, so they agreed to a trade with a McHale-led front office in which the Wolves received Nicholas Cage lookalike Calvin Booth (!), Rodney Carney AND a first round pick for a top 55 protected 2nd round pick. AKA: nothing. Just so Philly could free up an arbitrary amount of cash to sign a Tier 2-3 Power Forward. The pick we received, might I add, ended up turning into Martell Webster 2 years later. And of course, Kahn got the credit for it.
This should put things into perspective as to how much the Wolves are getting fleeced in this scenario. I guess we will have to wait and see.
4. Under this scenario, the Al Jefferson trade is now: Big Al and Corey Brewer for a 16-20 range first round pick, Anthony Randolph, Eddy Curry's Krispy Kreme franchise and Kosta Koufos.
David Kahn: Worse than McHale. Here's hoping this story changes as the week goes on.
PS: You know those NBA commercials where they show lost footage of stars when they were young, and someone "goes back in time" to tell them they will be an NBA star someday? You know, like the one with Stephen Curry? Well, if some little kid came up to you on Nicollet Mall downtown and told you that David Kahn would use his cap space on a 500 pound Eddy Curry, how would you have reacted?
Last night my pappy brought the dark men home. They like to play silly games with me. Last night they made me take my pants off and open my fanny. They put their big stiks into my fanny and pushed in and out,in and out. At first it hurt real bad then it was so good dat my little peenie went up into the air. After a while they made a silly noise like a dying ostrich and the hot milk went into my belly. I went to the potty and the cream and blood falled into the toilet. I am 6 years old and Jesus loves me.
What happened to Kahn's "5 Windows of Opportunity?" This draft/off-season is the last of them, and then after that (according to Kahn) the Wolves should be in playoff contention next season. HAHAHAHA yeah right, we are more or less as terrible as we were last year, just more athletic and exciting to watch (at times.)
I know I say this often, but especially in this situation, great post Mike! I was definitely in favor of giving Kahn the benefit of the doubt and letting him do his thing, but over time, he has gotten worse and worse. Or maybe it's just now that I'm finally realizing it? He's not good. He just doesn't know what he's doing.
Regarding the trade, these teams should be hoping and praying that we will be a team willing to help them complete this trade. Instead we are giving up legitimate assets for a player that is intriguing, but doesn't play AT ALL, EVER.
Oh, and we have to take Curry off the Knicks hands. Someone please tell me how that makes any sense? What happened to trading a first round pick for Randolph that was rumored for weeks? I would do that. Instead, we have to add in Brewer AND take Curry. However, I see Pants saying that we just might have to trade Brewer. Still, so we aren't making any other moves with our cap space? It's going to be gone and that's that? You and your windows of opportunity are a gigantic FAIL, Mr. Kahn.
The Wolves are crucial to the Carmelo deal getting done, because only 4 teams can absorb Curry's deal without giving anything significant back. The Wolves and Sacto have the cap space. Cleveland and Toronto have their huge trade exceptions from the Bosh/LBJ trades.
So yeah, it's a disgrace we wouldn't get more in this for helping this trade finally go down.
Here is everyone discussing this (and much more!) in the TWB Forums:
In the Ken Berger deal the Wolves are keeping their picks and just trading Brewer. In your analysis you seem to say they are trading both. Am I misreading?
Zgoda noted last week that the Wolves preferred to trade a player who they don't expect to be with the team next year instead of the pick. If you know Brewer is gone (something had to give on the wings) than this is better than nothing.
@Pants80 It's like bizarro world synergy.
@CollegeWolf Classic Wolves deal. We give up three things of value for 1 thing of less value than any them individually.
@Pants80 But we definitely should NOT give up Brewer and a pick. Use the pick for something else down the road, or whatever. It's an asset, and you just can't be giving away assets...
@Pants80 Yeah, exactly... that's what we're saying.
We should be getting something just to take Curry so the Knicks can do this. I guess AR works since Kahn wants him so much, but its not unreasonable that we should also get pick(s) or something else. I guess I could live with any of the above deals. #3 kinda sucks... who else would be traded from us?
@CollegeWolf Oh wait. I'd almost forgotten how useless AR has proven so far. We should get him for the Curry space alone. That should be New York's penalty for needing to complete the deal AND not playing AR at all (he'll be out of shape).
Reasonable Deal #1:
Koufos - OUT
Curry/AR - IN
I could live with it #2 (just to trim the rotation):
Brewer/Koufos - OUT
Curry/AR - IN
TURD Deal #3:
Anything besides Brewer/Koufos/Telfair - OUT
Curry/AR - IN
@Pants80 "1. This deadline was very disappointing. I would have loved to see a legitimate starting SG enter from stage right. I have no idea how realistic that expectation was. Mayo or IGGY would have had me very very excited to watch games. Now all our eggs are in the lottery basket.... again.
3. The cap situation around the league was drastically different 2 years ago when teams with space were gifted pick after pick. Those deals just aren't to be had because lots of teams have the space and few teams are in a panic to get more."
- This trade deadline was/is an epic fail so far. Kahn better do something, and this trade isn't nearly enough. Also, only the Wolves or Sacramento can absorb someone as big as Curry's deal. Some other teams have cap space, but not very much. I wouldn't say there are "lots of teams" with space, and because of that the trades aren't bringing value back (for instance a team like the Wolves helping the Knicks in this article.) I just think Kahn is still in love with Randolph... and he's an idiot.
@Pants80 Agree on the Beasley benchmark comment. My expectations weren’t that high though. I mean, I’m not expecting Raymond Felton or anything but this proposal is just rotten.
@Pants80 1. Right, or a veteran, as Rhombus has asked for in nearly every post-game presser. With the cap space being gone, this idea is pretty much done unless Mayo suddenly comes into the picture, Maybe he still will. Either way Kahn has said numerous times he expected A (as in, one) minor deal at the deadline. This will be it.
2. No it’s not. We may use our cap space on Eddy Curry. That is a fact. It was also meant to be a bit of a joke. Alas, still a fact. And the opportunity cost of this is worth much more than Anthony Randolph (who I do like). This is not getting value for Brewer if he is indeed traded, nor is it about getting value for Brewer. Justifying it as such is dumb. We should be giving up a top 55 protected second rounder in this deal and nothing else. Brewer is going to Denver in the deal anyways, getting them even more.
3. Have you not been watching what has transpired over the past year? I mean 2010 Free Agency drove a lot of it course, but I would say the opportunity for things like that is equal or greater than 2 years ago, and happening in just about every single trade. Especially with teams cutting cash with the CBA looming, and a lot of young teams having extensions kicking in, such as Memphis.
@WallyWorld If all trades must be value rated against the Beasley deal than we are looking at nothing but F's going forward.
But I agree that the rating on this deal hinges on the pick. Brewer + cap space = nothing in 2011-2012 so I can deal witht he consolation prize (even though the value isn't good). Throw the pick in there and I'm pissed because that could be part of a deal in the future.
@Pants80 1. Thanks Pants. Corrected to not give the impression I was referring to the Berger article when breaking down the trade. There have been numerous reports, all suggesting a combo of Brewer, 1st or both, and I was referring to reports in general when breaking it down.
2. This is better than nothing, but not for what this nets the Knicks. The trade itself, as in who we acquire in a vacuum, isn’t all that bad. That’s not why this is a bad trade. But when you gift your cap space so a team can acquire Carmelo Anthony, AND you give up moderate assets while only getting an 11th man, you have some serious issues with how you value assets. This trade is horrible when it comes down to what we get vs. what we should get when all parties are considered.
3. Loosely consider, too what Kahn had to give up for Beasley in a very similar situation. This goes against the above but I suppose I can give Kahn credit for jumping on the Beasley opportunity when others allegedly wouldn’t.
1. This deadline was very disappointing. I would have loved to see a legitimate starting SG enter from stage right. I have no idea how realistic that expectation was. Mayo or IGGY would have had me very very excited to watch games. Now all our eggs are in the lottery basket.... again.
2. It is somewhat disengenuous to say the Wolves used their cap space on Eddy Curry. Basically they didn't us it to aquire a big name so they used it and an asset not in their future to aquire something of more value to us next year than sitting your hands and watching Brewer walk away.
3. The cap situation around the league was drastically different 2 years ago when teams with space were gifted pick after pick. Those deals just aren't to be had because lots of teams have the space and few teams are in a panic to get more.